[Poetik]

Quote:

>Does anyone upsample their music to 192Khz? I just read that its does not exist in NFB-11.
 
[Where?]
 
>Something i read in the top left corner of the page..
>http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB11.1/NFB11.1EN.htm
 
I believe that's referring to the quality of the SPDIF and USB inputs to the FNB-11 (player [software or hardware], PC, and/or other upstream device(s) in the signal path); not the FNB-11's implementation of the ES9018 chip's capabilities. Both the Hiface and Audio-GD DI digital interfaces are asynchronous and capable of outputting 192Khz/24bit signals if presented and both a) the input signal at that rate is clean enough, and b) the physical connections are good enough (notice at high bitrates/sample depth no optical SPDIF, coax only, and the Hiface needs the BNC connector). Oversampling appears to a function of the upstream source player software/firmware and hardware capability (for example, the foobar program oversampling upto 192/24 is a software switch); perhaps the designer should weigh in here 

 
I assume the FNB-11 ES9018 (having eight 32 bit DAC channels) is configured in "Stereo Quad Balance Mode," utilizing 4 D/A converters per channel; but, again, perhaps we should hear from the designer. The chip clearly has more capability than implemented in the FNB-11. All I can say for sure is that, so far, it sounds really clean and really detailed; i.e., good to my poor ears. As noted by others, too easy to play too loud. 

Where can I get this fabled, "FNB-11" from?
 
Joking aside, are you guys using the power supply with the digital interface?
 

 

[vinay]

Quote:

 
 

Well it's just like that... but with a much higher grade of quality than a simple usb to spdif.... I just got mine a couple of hours ago, so I can't still comment o SQ improvement as I received a NFB-11 also.... anyway... out of the box the NFB-11 + DI combo is far superior from my just repaired 09 zeroDAC (about 150hrs on the new PCB).
I can also say for sure that this combo sounds way better then the Aeolus magiDAC which I had for almost a month borrowed from a friend, until last week.
 


 
Which information do you want to know ? If the NFB-11 plays files at 24 bits / 192khz ?
Or if the DI upsamples to 192khz ?
 
 

 
 
If NFB-11 can play 192/24 bits? But my question still remains is there a significant difference between 44khz and 192khz? Why do ppl upsample??
 
Quote:

>Does anyone upsample their music to 192Khz? I just read that its does not exist in NFB-11.
 
[Where?]
 

>Something i read in the top left corner of the page..

>http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB11.1/NFB11.1EN.htm

 

I believe that's referring to the quality of the SPDIF and USB inputs to the FNB-11 (player [software or hardware], PC, and/or other upstream device(s) in the signal path); not the FNB-11's implementation of the ES9018 chip's capabilities. Both the Hiface and Audio-GD DI digital interfaces are asynchronous and capable of outputting 192Khz/24bit signals if presented and both a) the input signal at that rate is clean enough, and b) the physical connections are good enough (notice at high bitrates/sample depth no optical SPDIF, coax only, and the Hiface needs the BNC connector). Oversampling appears to a function of the upstream source player software/firmware and hardware capability (for example, the foobar program oversampling upto 192/24 is a software switch); perhaps the designer should weigh in here 

 

I assume the FNB-11 ES9018 (having eight 32 bit DAC channels) is configured in "Stereo Quad Balance Mode," utilizing 4 D/A converters per channel; but, again, perhaps we should hear from the designer. The chip clearly has more capability than implemented in the FNB-11. All I can say for sure is that, so far, it sounds really clean and really detailed; i.e., good to my poor ears. As noted by others, too easy to play too loud. 

 


 


Quote:

The strongest points from the NFB-11 in my opinion are the low frequencies and the huge dynamic range... you really can hear a big difference from low intensity to high intensity sounds.... it's pretty easy with to realize which recordings have dynamic range compression and which not...
Also I guess as a consequence of this, a lot of musical tracks are presented in a very different way from what I'm used to, in a good way, of course.... the music is more coherent, "makes sense".... it's easier to get the singer and band intentions on their performance...
I'm using a Kplisch B3 speaker and I really never heard it pumping so much low frequencies as they are doing now....
 
Well coming from a ZeroDAC with the Franken mod, I can say the NFB-11 is well worth it..... but still.... it's too early to make a complete statement.... it still needs a lot of hours, as do the DI..... and there are a lot of variable to test.....

 
 
Thanks for the input guys..

 

[dacavalcante]

Quote:

If NFB-11 can play 192/24 bits? But my question still remains is there a significant difference between 44khz and 192khz? Why do ppl upsample??
 

 
Yes... 192khz is a way better format than 44khz, but it's useless to take a mp3 16/44khz-320kbps, for example, and upsample it to 192khz/24 bits.....
The real advantage of the higher sampling rate will come only if the original recording is already using it....
Anyway... some guys like to upsample lower sampling rate material to 96khz and 192khz claiming the sound gets better.... well this have more to do with how a digital signal is processed (and I don't know too much about it), but in the end there could be a benefit I guess it has to do with the digital filter..... but I really don't know.... it's up to ppls ears on this matter....
My opinion is to not upsample, ressample or dither anything.... 

 

[rlawli]

>But my question still remains is there a significant difference between 44khz and 192khz?
 
For a start on upsampling see: 
 
http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio
 
As to whether there a significant difference between 44khz and 192khz, get ahold of one of the 2L recordings and listen for yourself. For example, 2L's Nordic Sound or the TrondheimSolistene DIVERTIMENTI.
 
The DIVERTIMENTI  
http://www.2l.no/
 
or
 
http://www.amazon.com/Divertimenti-Blu-Ray-Audio-Hybrid-Discs/dp/B0025ZIU82/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1301116134&sr=8-1
 
is a good test recording because the master was done in 24bit/394khz DXD and released as two disks (an SACD and BluRay) with the master downsampled to DSD Stereo, DSD Surround, regular CD Stereo, Linear PCM 24bit/192khz Stereo and 5.1 Surround, dts-hd MA 5.1 Surround 24bit/192, Dolby TrueHD 24bit/192 5.1 Surround, and Dolby Digital 48khz 5.1 Surround. (These recordings are also available separately for download in digital file form as CD WAV, Flac 192/24 stereo, Flac 96/24 5.1, and Flac 96/24 stereo.)
 
After a personal comparison, if you can't hear a difference, then there is no practical difference.
 
 
 

 
 
 
 

 

[vinay]

@dacavalcante:- That's what i do.. Do not change anything.. But most of my native songs are 320kbps and below. They are sold as mp3's and not in CD format at least most of them... thats why i asked if upsampling helps.

@rlawli:- Thanks for the links.. will check it out..
 

 

[vpsporb]

Quote:

Hi vpsporb!
 
Glad to hear about the improvement with the DI on You NFB-11!
 
What config do You use in it... Upsampling?
 
/Jan

Hey Jan,
 
For first few days I was using my Digital Interface ver.A in factory "passthru" mode to get acustomed to what it had to offer.
I had ordered mine with the TCXO clock upgrade, it was factory soldered to the PCB for better sound quality.
 
I just jumpered it for "upsampling" and 96khz mode yesterday. it's a near multiple of the 24.5Mhz clock, i neglected to try
48khz tho.. doh. Oh well, plenty of time to get around to testing 48 and 192.
setup: PC-FLAC->DI-A->NFB-11->Millet Hybrid MiniMax->HD600
At first listen it sounded kind of dull, but I read that the new clock needs some hours/burn-in before sounding right.
I left it playing for the past 22ish hrs... and it already sounds muuch better, I likes it so far! upsampling is said
to be especially worthwhile with the upgrade clock. There's perhaps a tube-like quality from upsampling.. with a quite detailed, dynamic, and very Involving sound.
I think the greatest change is while listening with HD600's, the positional accuracy and immersion of music is now like what I'd only get from using high-end IEMs.
 
I'm running mine thru USB/power so far, as I couldn't afford the dedicated PS with my DI-A   
I did just order a cheap Linear Regulated 6V 400mah wall charger tho.
 
I've always left the Win7 output to 16bit/44khz..... what's yours and others settings?
  

 

[dacavalcante]

 
Quote:

Quote:

Hey Jan,
 
For first few days I was using my Digital Interface ver.A in factory "passthru" mode to get acustomed to what it had to offer.
I had ordered mine with the TCXO clock upgrade, it was factory soldered to the PCB for better sound quality.
 
I just jumpered it for "upsampling" and 96khz mode yesterday. it's a near multiple of the 24.5Mhz clock, i neglected to try
48khz tho.. doh. Oh well, plenty of time to get around to testing 48 and 192.
setup: PC-FLAC->DI-A->NFB-11->Millet Hybrid MiniMax->HD600
At first listen it sounded kind of dull, but I read that the new clock needs some hours/burn-in before sounding right.
I left it playing for the past 22ish hrs... and it already sounds muuch better, I likes it so far! upsampling is said
to be especially worthwhile with the upgrade clock. There's perhaps a tube-like quality from upsampling.. with a quite detailed, dynamic, and very Involving sound.
I think the greatest change is while listening with HD600's, the positional accuracy and immersion of music is now like what I'd only get from using high-end IEMs.
 
I'm running mine thru USB/power so far, as I couldn't afford the dedicated PS with my DI-A   
I did just order a cheap Linear Regulated 6V 400mah wall charger tho.
 
I've always left the Win7 output to 16bit/44khz..... what's yours and others settings?

I'm using 24-96khz and disabled all windows sounds and processing...
I use Foobar with WASAPI all audio processing also off...
 
 
 

 

[dacavalcante]

 
Do you guys are having or had any issue with the audio chopping ? 
I'm thinking it's a NFB-11 problem rather than DI... from time to time the sound stops for a brief moment and backs again....
I already tried 2 different PCs and USB cables.... now I'm trying the DI alone with the ZeroDAC.... if it doesn't shows the problem... well.. then it's a NFB-11 issue and I'll report back to Audio-GD with my findings....
Also it doesn't matter if it's with Foobar or Windows Media player.... both music and movies...
 
 
8 hours later...
------ A little update on the issue...... well I've noticed it almost stopped happening..... burn in maybe ? Well... most probably as I haven't changed a thing... I'll keep posting about this issue if it will get solved with more burn in alone....

 

[acenes]

 
Quote:

 
Do you guys are having or had any issue with the audio chopping ? 
I'm thinking it's a NFB-11 problem rather than DI... from time to time the sound stops for a brief moment and backs again....
I already tried 2 different PCs and USB cables.... now I'm trying the DI alone with the ZeroDAC.... if it doesn't shows the problem... well.. then it's a NFB-11 issue and I'll report back to Audio-GD with my findings....
Also it doesn't matter if it's with Foobar or Windows Media player.... both music and movies...
 
 
8 hours later...
------ A little update on the issue...... well I've noticed it almost stopped happening..... burn in maybe ? Well... most probably as I haven't changed a thing... I'll keep posting about this issue if it will get solved with more burn in alone....

If audio chopping is the same as audio dropout , I corrected it by increasing my ASIO4ALL --> ASIO Buffer Size - from 256 Samples to 512 Samples.  I can't use WASAPI with WinXP , so I can't say if you would find a similiar setting there to change.
 
I would only get this chop/dropout when listening to 24/96 flac's while ripping CD's to MP3's at the same time, there's a lot of demand going on and increasing the ASIO Buffer Size fixed it.
 
 

 

[macrog]

Drop outs are often related to what USB port you are plugged into and what devices are sharing that USB bus.
 
I found Foobar easiest to get working reliably.  I am sure there are many threads on how to optimally configure Foobar. Setting the buffer as low as possible in devices and setting Foobar to cache the whole track is useful.
 
From my experience Windows 7 is a very worthwhile upgrade though even just from an audio perspective. Waspi is great!
 
Regards
 
Macrog

 

[dacavalcante]

A little picture for the guys =]

 

[dacavalcante]

Quote:

 
If audio chopping is the same as audio dropout , I corrected it by increasing my ASIO4ALL --> ASIO Buffer Size - from 256 Samples to 512 Samples.  I can't use WASAPI with WinXP , so I can't say if you would find a similiar setting there to change.
 
I would only get this chop/dropout when listening to 24/96 flac's while ripping CD's to MP3's at the same time, there's a lot of demand going on and increasing the ASIO Buffer Size fixed it.
 
 

Yes it's a dropout... I know what you mean... this problem is really common when latencies are too low and the computer is using some intensive task or even when sending a web browser to the back ground, specially on slowers computers... but that's not the case here, I have a fresh install windows 7 64, even with the computer idle only playing music....
Anyway... if it was a software issue, I'm pretty sure the ZeroDAC would suffer from the same issue as it is also using the DI.
 


Quote:

Drop outs are often related to what USB port you are plugged into and what devices are sharing that USB bus.
 
I found Foobar easiest to get working reliably.  I am sure there are many threads on how to optimally configure Foobar. Setting the buffer as low as possible in devices and setting Foobar to cache the whole track is useful.
 
From my experience Windows 7 is a very worthwhile upgrade though even just from an audio perspective. Waspi is great!
 
Regards
 
Macrog

Hi Macrog,
 
I've already tested 2 different computers on every USB port and also two different USB cables. My foobar settings are already the way you said.
I'm really enjoying WASAPI over Windows 7.... it's less picky than ASIO and seems to get the job done as well.
 
 
- For everybody -
 
It's also important to note that the problem wasn't related to WASAPI or Foobar, because even when using Windows Media Player playing a movie this happens..
Even doesn't matter if windows shared mode is set to 24/96 or 16/44.
Turning NFB-11 or DI on/off doesn't changed the problem when it was happening... neither stopping and resuming playback.
 
I also tested for overheating, and this doesn't showed to be any heat issue related.... 
 
If you guys wish I can post a video from the problem  and my "heat test" over youtube and drop the link. =]

 

[borrego]

I have been experiencing drop our since day 1 of my audio-gd ownership. After months of tweaking I realize it is 100% related to the Windows OS, power management of the motherboard, and background task.

There is 1 setup I have tried which has absolutly no drop out: rip a cd/dvd into an ISO image, then use the POWERISO software to mount the image as a virtual cd/dvd drive, then use foobar to play from the virtual drive.

You may want to try the above. I am not saying you should only listen to ripped cd/dvd ISO image to avoid drop-out, it is too troublesome and contradict the whole point of using the computer as source. The above setup is just to prove that there is a software setup to have completely drop-out free playback.

Beside the usual windows 7 registry tweak, foobar optimization, the following are necessary to avoid drop-out:

1. Disconnect the USB cable during computer start-up.
2. After entered Windows, invoke Task Manager to kill all those Adobe, Quicktime, Java, or whatever "auto update scheduler" taskes. If possible, uninstall those program.
3. Plug in the usb cable to a usb port which you can see in Windows's device manager list under "USB2.0 hub"

 

[JaMo]

Thanks for the post vpsporb! Nice pics.
 
I have not tried to use my DI yet. It is burning in right now at my work. Up to now I have only been feeding the NFB-11 through its own USB-in.
 
I am using Foobar2000 with Wasapi on Windows 7 ultimate 32 bit and a small Asus EEE 1000H (XP 32). I don't use any upsampling in the computers at all. Only native material up to 24/96.
 
I am going to use the DI as You're doing now.... feeding it with native material and let it upsample to 96 kHz. I am sure the DI will do a better job than the computers.
 
Like You I didn't buy the PSU. I will build my own later on..and until then I think it can manage USB-powered..
 
I haven't had any problems with dropouts... but I also try to keep my computers healthy and clean.
 
 
 
@dacavalcante: Nice rig! I hope You will get rid of the dropoutproblem. Have You tried to feed the NFB-11 coax in? Toslink? Same result?
 
 
/Jan

 

[dacavalcante]

Quote:

I have been experiencing drop our since day 1 of my audio-gd ownership. After months of tweaking I realize it is 100% related to the Windows OS, power management of the motherboard, and background task.

There is 1 setup I have tried which has absolutly no drop out: rip a cd/dvd into an ISO image, then use the POWERISO software to mount the image as a virtual cd/dvd drive, then use foobar to play from the virtual drive.

You may want to try the above. I am not saying you should only listen to ripped cd/dvd ISO image to avoid drop-out, it is too troublesome and contradict the whole point of using the computer as source. The above setup is just to prove that there is a software setup to have completely drop-out free playback.

Beside the usual windows 7 registry tweak, foobar optimization, the following are necessary to avoid drop-out:

1. Disconnect the USB cable during computer start-up.
2. After entered Windows, invoke Task Manager to kill all those Adobe, Quicktime, Java, or whatever "auto update scheduler" taskes. If possible, uninstall those program.
3. Plug in the usb cable to a usb port which you can see in Windows's device manager list under "USB2.0 hub"

Nice tips! I had completely forgot about all those updates on the background, I already turned all of them off by msconfig.
I also had a backup service running and stopped it.
Devices are on a usb 2.0 hub.
I also dropped vcore and cpu clock and turned off all system energy management.
 
I guess the background process do makes sense as when the system was just booted up the sounds was dropping a lot today.
I'll report back if it works... I don't mind if it eventually drops.
Well... these changes didn't helped at all.... so I'm trying something else... under windows advanced settings, performance.. I've turned off all visual enhancements...
I'll report back if it works...
 
Quote:

Thanks for the post vpsporb! Nice pics.
 
I have not tried to use my DI yet. It is burning in right now at my work. Up to now I have only been feeding the NFB-11 through its own USB-in.
 
I am using Foobar2000 with Wasapi on Windows 7 ultimate 32 bit and a small Asus EEE 1000H (XP 32). I don't use any upsampling in the computers at all. Only native material up to 24/96.
 
I am going to use the DI as You're doing now.... feeding it with native material and let it upsample to 96 kHz. I am sure the DI will do a better job than the computers.
 
Like You I didn't buy the PSU. I will build my own later on..and until then I think it can manage USB-powered..
 
I haven't had any problems with dropouts... but I also try to keep my computers healthy and clean.
 
 
 
@dacavalcante: Nice rig! I hope You will get rid of the dropoutproblem. Have You tried to feed the NFB-11 coax in? Toslink? Same result?
 
 
/Jan

I still haven't tried Toslink, only Coax fed by the DI.
 
I also think if it's to upsample, it's better to do it using the DI, but anyway... I don't think it's needed unless you're using some format it can't support... as for me these are just a few, so I wouldn't bother to resampler using Foobar.