[motberg]

I have a info from Audio-gd:

"From the manual, the HDMI define B can compatible."
Kingwa

Super

Thanks, can anyone comment on the differences between the Matrix Accusilicon clocks vs. the Crystek 575 in the SU-1 ?
Are they both at the same general quality level ?

 

[DACLadder]

The Accusilicon clocks are new to me. But their spec sheet claims low jitter. The Crysteks have been around for a while and are considered very good oscillators.

http://www.accusilicon.com/AS318BM.pdf.

 

[DACLadder]

Comparing Accusilicon and Crystek spec sheets they seem to have similar jitter performance. I always look at 10 to 1KHz jitter performance as jitter at these frequencies tend to modulate the playback audio and affect bass/ lower mid-range performance. Usually jitter goes way down as the measured clock jitter spectrum goes up. Low frequency jitter performance separates good clocks from OK clocks. Bass impact goes down and soundstage is more diffuse as jitter increases on the low side. Jitter at 1 to 100Mz is hardly noticeable at audio frequencies.

http://www.crystek.com/crystal/spec-sheets/clock/CCHD-575.pdf

 

[PeterCraig]

From the Audio-gd main webpage, Kingwa is offering the Singularity upgrade to Master 7 owners....

"During 7th. to 14th. June ,the Master 7 users can order the Master 7 Singularity digital board upgrade in the Master 7.
After upgrade the board, except the analog output buffers , other design and functions are exact same as the Master 7 Singularity.

You must had the good DIY skill to upgrade the board, the soldering is necessary"

Thanks Kingwa for this opportunity. I'm probably going to go for the upgrade. Definitely will have to hire someone a bit more professional to do the soldering for me.

But first I'd like to ask the M7 crowd, if you are using only the I2S input and never using any other input into the dac, does it still make sense to do this upgrade? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[bballas]

That's Great!!!!
the non modular design brain fart.......

 

[DACLadder]

But first I'd like to ask the M7 crowd, if you are using only the I2S input and never using any other input into the dac, does it still make sense to do this upgrade? Any help would be appreciated.

Oh boy... I am just getting my original Master 7 ready for sale. But I sent Kingwa an Email inquiring about the updated digital board. To recap a comparison of the M7 original versus Singularity 7 is the Singularity brings better precision to the PCM1704 soundscape. More detail, extended highs, smooth clear vocals. It's hard to say though how the upgrade will change the original M7. But my experience has been the lower the clock jitter on inputs the better the original M7 sounds.

I am not sure what the Singularity output drivers brings to the party but the digital board is a worthy upgrade especially if you use AES/EBU, S/PDIF, or Toslink inputs. You will have better much performance with the Singularity board versus the original on those inputs for sure.

With HDMI I2S the new digital board has a tighter lock capability called "high exact" mode. According to Kingwa, this needs to be programmed at the factory specifically for each high precision input (Input 5 in my case). I sent Kingwa a follow up asking do we need to specify which inputs are "high exact" mode capable?

I thought I read where the Singularity firwmware was recently updated to add NOS mode. I wonder if the digital board will come with the latest firmware? I shall ask....

 

[BoyNamedSue]

Nice. The Master 7's had a nice long run having been released in 2012. Still enjoying mine immensely. Kingwa also said that a upgradable board with the new 9038 chip will be released for the NFB7. I highly recommend the NFB7 as a complement to the Master 7.

 

[Articnoise]

Oh boy... I am just getting my original Master 7 ready for sale. But I sent Kingwa an Email inquiring about the updated digital board. To recap a comparison of the M7 original versus Singularity 7 is the Singularity brings better precision to the PCM1704 soundscape. More detail, extended highs, smooth clear vocals. It's hard to say though how the upgrade will change the original M7. But my experience has been the lower the clock jitter on inputs the better the original M7 sounds.

I am not sure what the Singularity output drivers brings to the party but the digital board is a worthy upgrade especially if you use AES/EBU, S/PDIF, or Toslink inputs. You will have better much performance with the Singularity board versus the original on those inputs for sure.

With HDMI I2S the new digital board has a tighter lock capability called "high exact" mode. According to Kingwa, this needs to be programmed at the factory specifically for each high precision input (Input 5 in my case). I sent Kingwa a follow up asking do we need to specify which inputs are "high exact" mode capable?

I thought I read where the Singularity firwmware was recently updated to add NOS mode. I wonder if the digital board will come with the latest firmware? I shall ask....

What do you mean by “this needs to be programmed at the factory specifically for each high precision input”? What kind info is needed, type of DDC?

 

[DACLadder]

What do you mean by “this needs to be programmed at the factory specifically for each high precision input”? What kind info is needed, type of DDC?

No, just PCM only... "High exact" mode is tighter, higher bandwidth PLL lock mode on the new SIngularity digital board DSP that is reserved for the lowest jitter input sources. The Amanero USB plus other serial inputs do not use "high exact" mode but some lower bandwidth mode that has enough lock range to work reliably. You need a really good HDMI I2S source (low jitter) to get the best out high exact mode. My Gustard U12 doesn't cut it on the HDMI I2S input but the Singxer never fails.

Kingwa just sent an Email and said "Input 5' defaults to high exact PLL mode. You may set the bypass jumper on the new DSP to disable high exact mode. But Kingwa told me at one time that Input 6 could have high exact mode functionality as well by merely reprogramming a customer's box. I think this is reserved for dual HDMI inputs or something like that. So inquire with Kingwa in you need something different.

And Kingwa also mention the separate board orders have the latest firmware. I believe NOS capability, with a jumper, was recently added.

 

[DACLadder]

On Singularity digital board orders Kingwa also asked if I needed AES/EBU support on Input 2 (yes, in my case). Something extra has to be added to the order to accommodate.

 

[bButcher]

if you are using only the I2S input and never using any other input into the dac, does it still make sense to do this upgrade? Any help would be appreciated.

Actually there is another upgrade path if you (1) only use I2S input (2) only use NOS mode (or upsampling using computer) (3) Have necessary DIY skill --- you can (almost completely) bypass DSP chip and use your low jitter DDC with I2S output to drive PCM1704s directly. This is the lowest possible jitter performance you can get using I2S input.

So how does it sound: holographic image, depth of soundstage has improved a lot, bass is now almost as good as mid range.

Note: (A) my DAC is Maser/NOS11, but the same principle should apply to Master/NOS7 as well. (B) My DDC is Singxer F-1 with power upgraded to LT3042.

 

[Articnoise]

No, just PCM only... "High exact" mode is tighter, higher bandwidth PLL lock mode on the new SIngularity digital board DSP that is reserved for the lowest jitter input sources. The Amanero USB plus other serial inputs do not use "high exact" mode but some lower bandwidth mode that has enough lock range to work reliably. You need a really good HDMI I2S source (low jitter) to get the best out high exact mode. My Gustard U12 doesn't cut it on the HDMI I2S input but the Singxer never fails.

Kingwa just sent an Email and said "Input 5' defaults to high exact PLL mode. You may set the bypass jumper on the new DSP to disable high exact mode. But Kingwa told me at one time that Input 6 could have high exact mode functionality as well by merely reprogramming a customer's box. I think this is reserved for dual HDMI inputs or something like that. So inquire with Kingwa in you need something different.

And Kingwa also mention the separate board orders have the latest firmware. I believe NOS capability, with a jumper, was recently added.

Okay as I thought. No need to do anything to get high exact mode if you just going to use the normal HDMI Input. Only if you want it on more I2S inputs. Thanks.

 

[Articnoise]

Actually there is another upgrade path if you (1) only use I2S input (2) only use NOS mode (or upsampling using computer) (3) Have necessary DIY skill --- you can (almost completely) bypass DSP chip and use your low jitter DDC with I2S output to drive PCM1704s directly. This is the lowest possible jitter performance you can get using I2S input.

So how does it sound: holographic image, depth of soundstage has improved a lot, bass is now almost as good as mid range.

Note: (A) my DAC is Maser/NOS11, but the same principle should apply to Master/NOS7 as well. (B) My DDC is Singxer F-1 with power upgraded to LT3042.

Interesting. How did you bypass the DSP chip, disconnected it electrically? I guess it was not with the jumper as you said necessary DIY skill is needed.

 

[bButcher]

Interesting. How did you bypass the DSP chip, disconnected it electrically?

Not exactly. If you only want a taste of what it might bring to the table sonical-wise, the minimal mod will involve cutting one end of impedance-matching resistor (of BCLK) to PCM1704s and wires it directly to DDC output.

Theory behind the mod:

After study the datasheet of PCM1704 and I2S specs, you will find (1) the only signal matters jitterwise to PCM1704 output is BCLK (2) DATA from I2S output is L+R channels, and input to PCM1704 is L or R channel only, so the DSP chip is still used to generate separate L, R DATA signals. If you want to completely bypass the DSP chip, there are DIY modules available to do the I2S to bi-mono conversion. (3) Put the DAC in NOS mode so all signals will sync.

 

[bballas]