[FredA]

[wrong thread]

 

[PLGA]

Hello guys,
Some impressions:

1. The new firmware on the DI-20 is very good. I've found the biggest difference in soundstage with improved depth and more detached sound from the speakers and better instrument separation.

The soundstage seems to have shrunk on the sides, but I believe I feel it that way due to the increase of the depth as when I listen to songs that have some instruments (or sounds) beyond the sides of the speakers, it is still there, in the same position.

2. I don't find a big difference between serial and parallel modes. I feel may be the parallel one a little bit more alive and real, so I'm keeping it that way.

3. Between a 2 feet long Blue Jean Belden HDMI cable (I2S connection) and a 1 meter long chinese fake Nordost Odin 2 XLR (AES/EBU connection), I prefer the latest. It sounds smoother while retaining the detail and dynamics. The chinese cable is more expensive, but it sounds better. I don't know if its the cable or the difference between the I2S and AES/EBU inputs on my R8 DAC, but I prefer it that way. By the way, the chinese cable is silver coated copper.

By the way. I know this is off topic, but I totally recomend the Uptone Etherregen to anyone who streams music. It made a big difference, may be similar, or even bigger than the DI-20. 100% worthwile and with a 30 day return policy.

 

[TitaniumDust]

I debated whether or not to post this, but I thought I would just in case it helps anyone.

First of all, Kingwa was *extremely* helpful during the process and quickly offered a refund for the DI-20.

After receiving my DI-20 (90/98M edition) I was getting no output. I don't own a DAC with AES or IIS inputs so I couIdn't test those outputs. I tried two different DACs but neither one worked. I anticipated the ACSS output not working with a any given DAC, but I assumed the RCA output would work with all DACs. I tried two or three different SPDIF cables (both BNC and RCA) and I used adapters to try both the BNC and RCA outputs of the DI-20. No luck any way I tried.

I installed the driver and everything looked great on the PC end. My media player happily "played" to the device, and the DI-20 display showed that it changed sample rate when I played music at different rates. I am a guru at computers (I've been building my own PCs for more that 20 years) and I know there was no issue with device configuration. I verified all drivers were installed and functional according to Device Manager.

One thing to note is that I didn't try a different USB cable, I don't think. I am using fully functioning 7N OCC silver USB and SPDIF cables, and I had no desire to use something else. Using inferior cables would cancel out any sonic upgrades that the DI-20 had to offer. So in the end, I still don't know where the incompatibility was. Could have been the USB cable. Both SPDIF cables I tried were silver and perhaps that was the problem? Maybe it didn't like my motherboard. Whatever the case, Kingwa tested the returned unit and determined it was functional, so I had no choice but to get a refund. Thank you to KIngwa for being so helpful! Unfortunately, the DI-20 just didn't work in my system and now I either have to live with my U16 or try something else like SU-2 or SU-6.

 

[FredA]

I debated whether or not to post this, but I thought I would just in case it helps anyone.

First of all, Kingwa was *extremely* helpful during the process and quickly offered a refund for the DI-20.

Too bad. Perhaps an impedance issue with the cables..I don't know.

 

[DACLadder]

@TitaniumDust That is unfortunate and glad you spoke out here. Were you connecting S/PDIF coax from the DI-20 to your DAC? If so wondering if the DI’s ACSS S/PDIF output circuit is compatible with your DAC? What DAC is it in case someone else has a similar issue? Could very well be an impedance methodology issue and why it works for Kingwa and not for you. Thanks again for sharing.

 

[rsbrsvp]

@rsbrsvp Since you have both the externally clocked R7 2020 and DI-20HE (well broken in) have you made any comparison to USB into the DI-20 and USB direct to the R7 2020? All externally clocked.

The reason for asking with an external clocked DAC is the DI-20 even necessary? With my current setup (DI20HE and regular R7) I find less differences in sound quality with HDMI I2S or SPDIF or AES/EBU. They are getting closer in sound with each hardware and firmware upgrade. And there is a rumor that Kingwa is working on a new DAC digital board to replace the older 2017-2019 digital board. It will have external clocking capability so perhaps DIY upgrade for externally clocked DAC in the future . Just rumor, of course. But interested in how the externally clocked DI's USB sounds compared to externally clocked DAC's USB input.

And anyone else with the latest DAC and DI gear would like to hear your comments as well about externally clocking and USB input comparisons.

I did make the comparison. Why? I figured maybe I could sell my DI-20HE. Also- I find the external clocking has more effect on the R-7HE than on the DI-20HE if I choose to clock only one of them,

However I found that with the DI-20HE externally clocked and the R-7HE externally clocked the sonics were noticably better IMHO than USB direct to the R-7HE externally clocked. It could be that those who have a low jitter source may not need the DI-20HE. I am using a a mac mini and perhaps one of these dedicated music servers may do a better job and eliminate the need to use the DI-20HE. I cannot know...

Also- I use a $50 Jitterbug on the USB output of my mac mini and it also improves sonics. Better focus- fuller sound, bigger sound.

What I am interested in comparing is my SOTM-usbtx ultra to R7HE both with external clocking to the DI-20HE and R-7HE with external clocking; but my SOTM- usbtx ultra is in need of repair because I dropped it- so can't do that now.

 

[rsbrsvp]

I have compared the DI-20HE in Parallel vs Serial and Serial is for sure cleaner, brighter etc. Parallel is rounder and warmer.

I like both depending on my mood and the headphones I use. I can see easily why Fred prefers Serial...

 

[bercom02]

Good morning all,
Could someone tell me if the BNC ACSS output is compatible with the BNC input of my Chord Hugo Mscaler.
Thanks in advance

 

[Il Cuffiotto]

Could definitely be compatible.
Kingwa states it can match with most dac digital inputs.

Good morning all,
Could someone tell me if the BNC ACSS output is compatible with the BNC input of my Chord Hugo Mscaler.
Thanks in advance

 

[bercom02]

Thank you for this quick answer

 

[TitaniumDust]

@TitaniumDust That is unfortunate and glad you spoke out here. Were you connecting S/PDIF coax from the DI-20 to your DAC? If so wondering if the DI’s ACSS S/PDIF output circuit is compatible with your DAC? What DAC is it in case someone else has a similar issue? Could very well be an impedance methodology issue and why it works for Kingwa and not for you. Thanks again for sharing.

I tried it with a Topping D50 DAC and a Schiit Modi 2 Uber DAC. I tried both the ACSS (BNC) output as well as the RCA coaxial output of the DI-20 to both DACs. My primary cable is an Audio Sensibility Signature Silver BNC SPDIF cable, and I tried it with and without adapters from both the BNC and RCA outputs of the DI-20. I also tried a VooDoo Cable Silverstream RCA/coax SPDIF cable from the RCA output to both DACs. I can't remember if I tried my Blue Jeans RCA cable, but I would not have wanted to use that cable anyways. BTW, the D50 DAC's display shows the current sample rate, but it instead displayed "UNLOCK" which meant it never received a valid audio signal.

I also can't remember if I tried a different USB cable. My cable of choice is a Moon Audio Silver Dragon. Since the computer reported no errors and the device was correctly installed and "playing" just fine, I may not have tried a different USB cable.

My original goal with trying the DI-20 was to get something that works with my current DAC, and then later on I would look into higher-end IIS DACs when I could afford it. Of course this mandated that the DI-20 work with my current cables and DAC. After having this problem with the DI-20, and also realizing that *very* little of the music I listen to on a regular basis is even available in DSD format, I decided to go a different route. I ordered a Bifrost 2 DAC, and I will look into either external clocks for U16 and/or looking at other DDCs. My SU-1 was completely trouble-free (until I accidentally broke the USB port... lol) so something like SU-6 + LPS would probably come really close to DI-20 (non-HE) in terms of sound quality.

Keep in mind that it is not outside the realm of possibility that I made some bone-headed mistake. I did spend about 45 minutes troubleshooting the issue before emailing Kingwa, and some time after that testing his suggestions.

 

[DACLadder]

@TitaniumDust Thanks. You tried two DACs and two difference S/PDIF outputs. I don’t see what else you could do. Sorry it did not work for you.

 

[Jackula]

For what it's worth, my DI-20HE also had no audio, no matter the output and I thought I got a dud unit. But after leaving it on for maybe 20 minutes the sound suddenly came through and I had no problems after that.

 

[DACLadder]

I did make the comparison. Why? I figured maybe I could sell my DI-20HE. Also- I find the external clocking has more effect on the R-7HE than on the DI-20HE if I choose to clock only one of them. However I found that with the DI-20HE externally clocked and the R-7HE externally clocked the sonics were noticably better IMHO than USB direct to the R-7HE externally clocked. It could be that those who have a low jitter source may not need the DI-20HE. I am using a a mac mini and perhaps one of these dedicated music servers may do a better job and eliminate the need to use the DI-20HE. I cannot know...

Thank you and guess the DI-20HE stays in the mix for a while longer! But am eager to see how the externally clocked R7 sounds. I feel the regular R7 may be holding back my system after all my other upgrades.

I have spent a modest fortune on 10M external clocks in the past year. Clock boards, OCXOs, power supplies, cables... But thanks to our good friend JaMo, who steered me to some ads from Europe, I recently purchased a Mutec Ref10 clock. Smokin' hot deal! The Ref 10's performance is more than 2 orders of magnitude better than what I am using now. Looking forward to that but shipment may be very slow due to the virus.

 

[TitaniumDust]

For what it's worth, my DI-20HE also had no audio, no matter the output and I thought I got a dud unit. But after leaving it on for maybe 20 minutes the sound suddenly came through and I had no problems after that.

Thank you @Jackula for the info. I am estimating that mine was powered on for about 1 or 1.5 hours the first day, while troubleshooting. I left it unplugged overnight and then tried again the next day with no luck. Perhaps I will try the DI-20 again in the future after more info appears and more people report their experiences.