[ThEvil0nE]

Thank god I'm mostly one of those who wait and see after the dusts settle coz I'm can be one annoying male Karen

 

[marekm]

not trying to dispute anything in your comment. but just wanted to expand.
yes it is a QC issue, but the "pre-order" release model is also drastically different to launching new products in the conventional manner (in-stock release).
with pre-order type models the new product is first announced at the "prototype" or still during development stage.
then the factory to customer logistic is streamlined and same with the Maxwell what you get is "batches" that get distributed as units leave from the factory (check each batch as you go). the time-frame is stressed and these kinds of issues become more problematic. while in a conventional launch development and manufacturing is done behind the scenes, there is more time to identify and address manufacturing issues within a relaxed time-frame. and they after all issues are weeded out they just pile up stock in a warehouse which is basically A+ grade manufacturing and then once units are distributed world-wide then they make the announcement with a release date, or just release it on the day of announcement. of course there is also a production time-line with an in-stock release, but there is no pressure from eagerly waiting customers who have already paid for the product.
so I am aware that the "streamlined" pre-order model does result in higher possibility of production issues, if the brand/company budgeted for it and addresses it fully (free returns/replacements) then some companies might consider that as cancelling out the initial hit to reputation.

Why are you trying to make the sale of MM-100 a kick-starter project ?

Pre-order is primarily a marketing gimmick to create additional "craving". "Pre-order now or you will miss our fantastic product".

So some early adopters pre-ordered....

We all know what happened next. Frankly speaking not much good, at least so far.

 

[pecotunkA]

Why are you trying to make the sale of MM-100 a kick-starter project ?

sorry that's not what I mean. I am not saying big company pre-order = kickstarter, they are completely different.
but just this popularity of kickstarter has influenced bigger companies to consider doing/marketing something similar.

I don't like what it is doing to the consumer experience. I have never backed a kickstarter and I think it is quite ridiculous when so many people do. it's encouraging a less consumer friendly approach to making and selling products.
(with the typical in-stock model you go to the store and many brands and competing products will be on the shelf to inspect, compare and try so it is a relatively fair consumer experience - you can even shop between different stores if you like)

 

[marekm]

In this particular case (an established manufacturer), two terms come to mind: greed and mismanagement.

 

[pecotunkA]

In this particular case (an established manufacturer), two terms come to mind: greed and mismanagement.

yes but since we don't fully know behind the scenes, I am hesistant to make accusations.
my problem is with the pre-order model being often used more recently in mainstream.
another recent example of a big company doing it is Logitech. very recently I got a email from them in my spam folder, it said "Pre-order Now!" some kind of expensive $$$ keyboard/laptop stand/touch pad kit that all folds into one tray. ridiculous I thought.

I don't want buying products in the future to be more of "commit and pay now then receive rushed product with possible minor changes many months later". I would rather no pre-order and just purchase units in stores with a more consumer friendly approach and better adherence to quality standards.

 

[Halleluhwah]

Can people who have it comment on the comfort? How is it compared to MM-500, LCD-5 and other things? I have an Arya so I wonder if this would be more or less comfortable.

 

[pecotunkA]

Pre-order is primarily a marketing gimmick to create additional "craving". "Pre-order now or you will miss our fantastic product".

So some early adopters pre-ordered....

Just FYI, someone on another audio forum linked to a reddit comment by Audeze CS that states MM-100 production started in August.
so early adopters are literally getting the first units off the production line.
so yeah I think more of a pre-order model rather than only a marketing gimmick where all manufacturing is completed and they artificially delay supply.

anyway I am aware I am clogging up the thread now scrolling back. I have injured my leg so have spent a lot of time sitting at the computer than usual for the past few days. I will try to post elsewhere so there can be more visible discussion about audio.
apologies, I always end up typing more than I want to.

 

[squibble]

I ordered the morning of August 23rd, before the verbiage on the MM-100 website changed from pre-order to back-order. I was charged the remaining amount for the headphones too, so does that mean my shipment will be part of the September production? I hope.

I wonder if anyone is still waiting on their pre-order shipment email.

 

[trellus]

Can people who have it comment on the comfort? How is it compared to MM-500, LCD-5 and other things? I have an Arya so I wonder if this would be more or less comfortable.

I have an Arya arriving tomorrow so I may be able to comment more directly in the next few days but I do have an HE-1000 v2 which has a similar design to Arya and I’d say it’s more comfortable than the MM-100 just because it feels more secure on my head, but I’d say the MM-100 is fairly comfortable, too.

There’s just nothing as spacious as oval ear cups for my big ears.

 

[iaku]

I have an Arya arriving tomorrow so I may be able to comment more directly in the next few days but I do have an HE-1000 v2 which has a similar design to Arya and I’d say it’s more comfortable than the MM-100 just because it feels more secure on my head, but I’d say the MM-100 is fairly comfortable, too.

There’s just nothing as spacious as oval ear cups for my big ears.

How's the depth of the ear pads? Do you find that your ears touch the fazors?

 

[pk4425]

I see on the Audeze web page that you plan a new production run in October. Hope you'll admit to the reported problems and get these surprises weeded out before that.

I hope Audeze is transparent about the serial numbers of the new production run, much like it was with the 2021 revision to the LCD-X, because there is no way in HELL I would buy a model from this initial production run.

What a botched product launch. Big time. Odd design choices, such as synthetic leather pads -- which wear easily -- that are glued on, making replacement tough. Then production delays. Now quality control issues at launch.

There is absolutely no doubt the pending sale to Sony took Audeze's eyes off the ball, as an astute forum poster noted here about the disruption of mergers and acquisitions. The last few months may have boosted Audeze's bank account, but it wasn't the company's finest hour for logistics, procedures and attention to detail. We're seeing it with the shoddy MM-100 rollout.

Shame. I was REALLY looking forward to trying and probably buying these cans as a past owner of the LCD-2C and current owner of the LCD-X 2021. Hell, I consider myself an Audeze stan. But this launch has shaken my faith a bit. Let's hope Sony can help Audeze get its act back together. It's a good company that has made very good cans in the past.

 

[pk4425]

with pre-order type models the new product is first announced at the "prototype" or still during development stage.

Not buying this justification of a crap rollout for a second. If you're loyal enough to a company to give them cash that can collect interest or be reinvested MONTHS before a product launches, then that product better be dead-nuts nailed at launch. You better not receive a prototype or early production with "kinks" that need to be fixed in subsequent runs.

Your logic screams that pre-order customers are paying for the privilege of receiving a prototype with flaws that will be ironed in future production runs. That makes zero sense.

But hey, maybe that's the way the audiophile industry works. If so, I'll never preorder anything because that's an ass-backward way to do business. Treating your most loyal, money-paying customers as prototype guinea pigs?

Hell, no.

 

[pk4425]

In this particular case (an established manufacturer), two terms come to mind: greed and mismanagement.

Or internal chaos and disruption due to focus on the negotiations with Sony on the sale.

 

[pk4425]

Just FYI, someone on another audio forum linked to a reddit comment by Audeze CS that states MM-100 production started in August.
so early adopters are literally getting the first units off the production line.
so yeah I think more of a pre-order model rather than only a marketing gimmick where all manufacturing is completed and they artificially delay supply.

anyway I am aware I am clogging up the thread now scrolling back. I have injured my leg so have spent a lot of time sitting at the computer than usual for the past few days. I will try to post elsewhere so there can be more visible discussion about audio.
apologies, I always end up typing more than I want to.

Hope your leg mends quickly, mate. Feel better soon!

 

[pecotunkA]

You better not receive a prototype or early production with "kinks" that need to be fixed in subsequent runs.

Oh no definitely not. Customers will not be receiving prototypes. I was just saying that is probably the stage when they made the announcement (not one production unit manufactured).
I am sure you know basic product development utilises prototypes to achieve the basic design. so they probably have 3 or 4 prototypes but these are always never meant to be sent to customers and for internal use only.

Your logic screams that pre-order customers are paying for the privilege of receiving a prototype with flaws that will be ironed in future production runs. That makes zero sense.

Actually this part I think is partially true (not the prototype part as I stated above). The earliest adopters (ones who pre-ordered first and will receive their unit first) are more likely to receive an early production unit (one of the first units off the production line), which means a higher chance of receiving a unit with undetected issues. As they ramp up production and more units with “issues” are reported by customers, they will investigate and rectify it. This process usually happens a few times until the “issues” are all ironed out as you mentioned. A negative aspect of rushed manufacturing due to using a pre-order model.

Paying the privilege of receiving an early production unit yes I think is true. It’s similar with other streamlined models (an extreme example would be a kickstarter), first batch always has much higher chance of issues, second maybe 3rd batch is where most problems are addressed.
As you said ironed out in future production runs is correct.

In a normal in-stock model release we don’t consider anything behind the scenes because it’s completely hidden from us, so effectively we perceive the product to have much better QC.