[Kevintj604]

Technical quality is not worth much to me in music. High end headphones come with one thing they are very good at and that's it, only you're spending exponentially more money on them. You only expect such a quality from such a price and then it is nothing special anymore. Rather than having headphones that try to be the best in one area, I want headphones that grab me emotionally, that make me feel like I'm with the artist for a moment, like a photo youre looking at that takes moment, a snapshot you pull out the song and hear all the information and breath from the artist like youre in the recording studio at the same moment - just like I did with the LCD-X. But currently I'm falling for the LCD2 I've never heard a more musical headphone. So I can do without the 20% extra resolution.

Everyone is looking for different things in the hobby and you seem to index for a lot of the same traits that I do in a headphone. That being said technical ability very much matters to me especially after owning, selling, trading and upgrading the amount of headphones I have the past five years.

I think there’s a price to performance sweet spot and although I don’t think I’ll go up any higher tiers than I am currently I don’t think the LCD2 is at a spot that I’d personally be happy with.

Glad to hear you get so much enjoyment out of it though. You’ll save a lot more money if you stay in the price bracket that you’re happy in.

 

[Kevintj604]

Except that it is bs. It’s not even up for debate since other companies literally have open back headphones, without glued on pads, that are capable of producing flat bass down to 20hz.

As stated earlier, Hifiman, Meze, Abyss, Final Audio, and ZMF just to name a few off the top of my head.

And I’m pretty sure the HEDDphone and Goldplanar don’t have glued on pads either. And there are still models by ThieAudio and Moondrop that can do it, too.

I’m not sure what you do for a living but I’m not an engineer. I’m a headphone enthusiast, but know essentially nothing about the design and engineering decisions that go into creating a headphone like an MM-100 or any other headphone in Audeze’s lineup.

To call something BS without having any knowledge of why they’ve made the decisions that they’ve made is pretty unfair.

I would be pissed if someone on a forum who has no knowledge of what I do for a living told me my work and engineering choices were BS. Especially for something trivial like a pad swap.

I guess I just wholeheartedly disagree with a lot of the pad comments here. I don’t think it’s a big deal at all. To call it a deal breaker is nuts to me. It’s a $400 headphone.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

I’m not sure what you do for a living but I’m not an engineer. I’m a headphone enthusiast, but know essentially nothing about the design and engineering decisions that go into creating a headphone like an MM-100 or any other headphone in Audeze’s lineup.

To call something BS without having any knowledge of why they’ve made the decisions that they’ve made is pretty unfair.

I would be pissed if someone on a forum who has no knowledge of what I do for a living told me my work and engineering choices were BS. Especially for something trivial like a pad swap.

I guess I just wholeheartedly disagree with a lot of the pad comments here. I don’t think it’s a big deal at all. To call it a deal breaker is nuts to me. It’s a $400 headphone.

Never called it a dealbreaker. I said it was a poor design. And if you can’t actually refute any of the examples I just gave, then how am I wrong?

I’ve been in this hobby for over 15 years. I’ve owned every high end Audeze except the LCD 5, LCD R, and estat.

Other manufacturers produce headphone models without glue on pads that are capable of producing the same bass response as Audeze and better. So it’s absolutely NOT a general requirement. That’s called a fact, sir.

 

[Kevintj604]

Never called it a dealbreaker. I said it was a poor design. And if you can’t actually refute any of the examples I just gave, then how am I wrong?

I’ve been in this hobby for over 15 years. I’ve owned every high end Audeze except the LCD 5, LCD R, and estat.

Other manufacturers produce headphone models without glue on pads that are capable of producing the same bass response as Audeze and better. So it’s absolutely NOT a general requirement. That’s called a fact, sir.

You didn’t call it a dealbreaker but @marekm eluded to it being one. Obviously we have a difference of opinion but I think it’s an unreasonable one on a $399 product. And it truly doesn’t matter. It’s a pad.

Audeze does sell replacement pads for much cheaper than Meze & Abyss. If the Audeze ones get destroyed while replacing them it is what it is.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

You didn’t call it a dealbreaker but @marekm eluded to it being one. Obviously we have a difference of opinion but I think it’s an unreasonable one on a $399 product. And it truly doesn’t matter. It’s a pad.

Audeze does sell replacement pads for much cheaper than Meze & Abyss. If the Audeze ones get destroyed while replacing them it is what it is.

I agree with your last point. For the price of this headphone, it’s not a big deal. BUT their flagship planars ALL use the same glued on system. So it is a big deal at $2000, $3000, $4000, and $4500.

You could make the argument that it’s a big deal for any of their models from the LCD 2 and up. Even the entry level Hifiman models have detachable and easily replaceable earpads

 

[trellus]

Agreed. It’s a necessity based on THEIR engineering choice. But it’s absolutely not a necessity in a general sense.

The Final d8000 series uses an air dampening system for their drivers. So their earpads are specifically designed to be very open and breathable. Those drivers are so well engineered that they can produce flat bass down to 20hz without even needing 2nd and 3rd order harmonics to do it (cup resonance).

I’m not sure that the initial design choices they made which then trigger the need for that level of seal are about bass - I suspect that the design choice is about some broader or a different design objective, which then makes it difficult to achieve bass without just using glued pads.

In other words, I am confident Audeze knows bass can be achieved without glued pads — just not for the way they designed it and doing so would require different design choices that run counter to some other goals they had for their design. So, basically, that means something else drove their design decision and they weren’t willing to change that so they went with glued pads to achieve linear bass and still meet they’re the more critical objectives.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

I’m not sure that the initial design choices they made which then trigger the need for that level of seal are about bass - I suspect that the design choice is about some broader or a different design objective, which then makes it difficult to achieve bass without just using glued pads.

In other words, I am confident Audeze knows bass can be achieved without glued pads — just not for the way they designed it and doing so would require different design choices that run counter to some other goals they had for their design. So, basically, that means something else drove their design decision and they weren’t willing to change that so they went with glued pads to achieve linear bass and still meet they’re the more critical objectives.

That’s a very reasonable assumption, and you’re probably right. It still doesn’t put them beyond reproach

They are allowed to cling to their design choice, and the paying customers are allowed to criticize the consequences of their design choice.

 

[marekm]

but @marekm eluded to it being one

Not sure yet if this is a deal breaker, but my enthusiasm has definitely subsided

Be precise.

Regarding glueing - it is cheap, so manufacturers (not all) use it to cut costs. The rest, like others have said, is BS.

 

[Kevintj604]

Be precise.

Regarding glueing - it is cheap, so manufacturers (not all) use it to cut costs. The rest, like others have said, is BS.

It’s a $400 headphone. Audeze doesn’t need to adhere to any of your “demands”. I think that’s BS.

Find another headphone if it’s such a big deal to you.

 

[pk4425]

I guess I just wholeheartedly disagree with a lot of the pad comments here. I don’t think it’s a big deal at all. To call it a deal breaker is nuts to me. It’s a $400 headphone.

$400 may be disposable to you; for others, it's a lot of dough. You don't pretend to know engineering, and that's fair and honest. You also don't know other people's discretionary budgets for hobbies, most of which are probably smaller than yours.

So, dismissing a headphone as "It's just a $400 headphone" can come off as haughty to some, just as much as you think of those who criticize headphone design and engineering decisions despite having no engineering and design background.

Plus, to be fair, there are companies making $150 over-ear headphones with pads that aren't glued ...

Anyways, respond at will. I'm done with this threadjack. Hope this thread veers back to discussion about the MM-100, and I'm sorry for my contributions here toward driving discussion off the rails.

 

[Kevintj604]

$400 may be disposable to you; for others, it's a lot of dough. You don't know engineering, and that's fair and honest. You also don't know other people's discretionary budgets for hobbies, most of which are probably smaller than yours.

Again. This answers your comment as well. This is an engineering decision.

https://www.audeze.com/en-ca/blogs/technology-and-innovation/why-we-use-adhesive-to-attach-earpads-on-our-upper-end-models#:~:text=This is mostly because the,response Audeze is famous for

 

[pk4425]

Again. This answers your comment as well. This is an engineering decision.

https://www.audeze.com/en-ca/blogs/technology-and-innovation/why-we-use-adhesive-to-attach-earpads-on-our-upper-end-models#:~:text=This is mostly because the,response Audeze is famous for

No kidding. And there are other companies with similar amounts of engineering prowess and excellent bass response in their headphones that don't use glue. There's also a lot of PR at work in this blog, a field I know because I've worked in it for 30 years.

Could Audeze make a headphone with clip-on pads? Sure. It chooses not to because of design decisions and ... the unwritten part ... because gluing is cheaper. Those savings hopefully are passed on to the consumer.

Did you really expect a premium brand like Audeze to write a blog that says, "We glue on pads because our frequency response is based on this design decision and because it's cheaper in the manufacturing process?" Of course not. That would be stupid marketing and PR for a premium brand.

But if you believe that engineering is the 100 percent sole reason behind the decision to glue pads, then I have oceanfront property in Saskatchewan to sell you.

 

[Kevintj604]

No kidding. And there are other companies with similar amounts of engineering prowess and excellent bass response that don't use glue. There's also a lot of PR at work in this blog, a field I know because I've worked in it for 30 years.

Could Audeze make a headphone with clip-on pads? Sure. It chooses not to because of design decisions and ... the unwritten part ... because gluing is cheaper. Those savings hopefully are passed on to the consumer.

Did you really expect a premium brand Audeze to write a blog that says, "We glue on pads because our frequency response is based on this design decision and because it's cheaper in the manufacturing process?" Of course not. That would be stupid marketing and PR for a premium brand.

But if you believe that engineering is the 100 percent sole reason behind the decision to glue pads, then I have oceanfront property in Saskatchewan to sell you.

Again. Same as the last guy. You want to make up a story in your head about decisions that you have no actual evidence of.

Audeze has given you answers that you don't like so you've chosen to craft your own narrative.

Agree to disagree I guess. I believe what Audeze is saying as they've given me no reason not to.

 

[pk4425]

Again. Same as the last guy. You want to make up a story in your head about decisions that you have no actual evidence of.

Actually, there's plenty of evidence: Go to any headphone shop and put on a pair of cans that use clip-on pads yet still have deep, pinpoint bass response.

Good bass response can be achieved without glued-on pads. Audeze chooses not to. Those are the only two unassailable truths here.

 

[HAydin]

Actually, there's plenty of evidence: Go to any headphone shop and put on a pair of cans that use clip-on pads yet still have deep, pinpoint bass response.

Good bass response can be achieved without glued-on pads. Audeze chooses not to. Those are the only two unassailable truths here.

Nope, I have not heard any other headphones that have the same quality and slam in the Bass as Audeze. It goes very low and is linear down to the lowest frequencies below 20 Hz and they are fast. Audeze is known for that.
Even other Planars like Hifiman are not on the same level.