[lithiumnk]

@lithiumnk, that's a wonderful pic. I couldn't agree with you more. I've also watched the parade of ever-improving flagship IEMs go by. I read up on the ones that catch my interest–for fun, not for purchase. No matter how many new designs, new configurations of BA, dynamic, electrostat drivers, etc., until they make an open-back like the i4, I'm not interested.

But–there is a non-IEM that has been piquing my interest in recent years: the SR1A. The thing is I'm not sure that I'm ready go to back to a full-size I have to wear on my head. The unique strength of the SR1A is in its speaker-like imaging, but I use Realiser convolution with the i4s that better simulate speaker/room. However, convolution compromises accuracy and resolution, and even if I didn't run convolution, the SR1As are still superior in that department.

The SR1A and LCDi4s are almost on the opposite sides of the headphone world in terms of form factor. Yet, that is what I'm comparing in terms of a next purchase. I got a chance to hear the Raal once at a dealer a long time ago. I haven't gone back because of Covid. Since you have both phones at home, in a desktop setup, I would love to hear your impressions between the two. My assumption is that, without convolution, the SR1A just rises above the i4s in every way at the cost of form factor. What are your thoughts?

SR1A to me is as special as lcdi4. I believe both are novel & there is no doubt SR1A sounds better/completely different but both serve diff purpose & should not be compared. i4 sounds tonally incorrect without reveal to me.

 

[edwardsean]

SR1A to me is as special as lcdi4. I believe both are novel & there is no doubt SR1A sounds better/completely different but both serve diff purpose & should not be compared. i4 sounds tonally incorrect without reveal to me.

I understand what you mean. As I mentioned, they are about as far away from each other as you can get and still be some type of headphone transducer. They each can do things the other cannot.

But, I would be using them in the same exact application, in the same exact position. So, I need to compare them.

I'm not asking the SR1A to go mobile, but I am asking the LCDi4 to take the place of full-size phones with speaker presentation. I am satisfied that high quality convolution can give me speaker imaging from the i4s. They definitively replaced the HD800s for me.

At the dealer the SR1A delivered nearfield "speaker-like" presentation. However, with Realiser convolution, the i4s can mimic full floor standing towers like the Wilson Sashas or Magicos. Set up properly–with Reveal and additional upmixing and upscaling, the effect is stunning. So, oddly enough, when I compare the two, the i4s are much more expansive in staging–with convolution.

I am considering the possibility that the SR1As will nevertheless be so far superior in other departments (speed, resolution, accuracy) that I may swap out the i4+convolution for the SR1A. The SR1A would take the place of the i4s and the i4s would then be put purely to mobile duty.

I asked you because you seem to be using both as stationary desktop phones, so your insights would be valuable to me.

 

[lithiumnk]

I understand what you mean. As I mentioned, they are about as far away from each other as you can get and still be some type of headphone transducer. They each can do things the other cannot.

But, I would be using them in the same exact application, in the same exact position. So, I need to compare them.

I'm not asking the SR1A to go mobile, but I am asking the LCDi4 to take the place of full-size phones with speaker presentation. I am satisfied that high quality convolution can give me speaker imaging from the i4s. They definitively replaced the HD800s for me.

At the dealer the SR1A delivered nearfield "speaker-like" presentation. However, with Realiser convolution, the i4s can mimic full floor standing towers like the Wilson Sashas or Magicos. Set up properly–with Reveal and additional upmixing and upscaling, the effect is stunning. So, oddly enough, when I compare the two, the i4s are much more expansive in staging–with convolution.

I am considering the possibility that the SR1As will nevertheless be so far superior in other departments (speed, resolution, accuracy) that I may swap out the i4+convolution for the SR1A. The SR1A would take the place of the i4s and the i4s would then be put purely to mobile duty.

I asked you because you seem to be using both as stationary desktop phones, so your insights would be valuable to me.

I don't have access to realiser software/convolution filters. So, i cannot relate to your impressions. I use Audeze convolution filters in Roon.
I believe SR1A is far far better in all areas except bass extension due to sealed nature of i4s.

Try to demo raals after covid settles down on your setup. I am sure that we will have diff impressions.
I have also shared my impressions on Raal thread as compared to TOTL planar/dynamic hps.

I seldom use i4s on my desktop setup. Most of the listening is via cipher cable & portable gears.

 

[normie610]

I don't have access to realiser software/convolution filters. So, i cannot relate to your impressions. I use Audeze convolution filters in Roon.
I believe SR1A is far far better in all areas except bass extension due to sealed nature of i4s.

To me the i4s are not sealed at all. You can hear clearly the ambient noise, zero isolation.

 

[edwardsean]

To me the i4s are not sealed at all. You can hear clearly the ambient noise, zero isolation.

He's speaking more specifically in reference to the bass response. Even there, yes, the i4s don't seal like traditional IEMs, but they still need to couple to your ears to produce the intended low end.

 

[normie610]

He's speaking more specifically in reference to the bass response. Even there, yes, the i4s don't seal like traditional IEMs, but they still need to couple to your ears to produce the intended low end.

Yep, it’s the only IEM that can produce thumping bass with zero isolation.

 

[edwardsean]

Yep, it’s the only IEM that can produce thumping bass with zero isolation.

Definitely, but just to clarify that "thump" can only be achieved if the i4s are properly sealed in you ear. The "zero isolation" sound leakage of the i4s is not primally the result of seal/no seal, but its open back design.

Fullsize open backs also produce "thump" with zero isolation but the same rule applies. They need to be sealed around your ears. The SR1a, MySphere, AK10000 are unique in that they are not only open in the back, but also have no baffle in the front. So, they can produce bass but not the thumping sub-bass.

To get the visceral low end, drivers need to couple to your ear in some way or another. Full-size phones seal around your ears and IEMs seal in your ear canal. The i4s are unique in that they seal somewhere in your outer ear. There are those that complain that the i4s lack low-end and some find the i4s bloated, but that is because they have yet to find the proper seal you have.

 

[normie610]

Definitely, but just to clarify that "thump" can only be achieved if the i4s are properly sealed in you ear. The "zero isolation" sound leakage of the i4s is not primally the result of seal/no seal, but its open back design.

Fullsize open backs also produce "thump" with zero isolation but the same rule applies. They need to be sealed around your ears. The SR1a, MySphere, AK10000 are unique in that they are not only open in the back, but also have no baffle in the front. So, they can produce bass but not the thumping sub-bass.

To get the visceral low end, drivers need to couple to your ear in some way or another. Full-size phones seal around your ears and IEMs seal in your ear canal. The i4s are unique in that they seal somewhere in your outer ear. There are those that complain that the i4s lack low-end and some find the i4s bloated, but that is because they have yet to find the proper seal you have.

Thanks, that’s very helpful. I’m also comparing the i4 with IEMs that use APEX module. When the module with the least isolation is used, the bass quantity is also reduced although the IEM seals in the ear canal. Perhaps there’s another factor at play here. Anyway, the i4 sounds amazing and I’ve been a happy camper for more than 3 years

 

[edwardsean]

Thanks, that’s very helpful. I’m also comparing the i4 with IEMs that use APEX module. When the module with the least isolation is used, the bass quantity is also reduced although the IEM seals in the ear canal. Perhaps there’s another factor at play here. Anyway, the i4 sounds amazing and I’ve been a happy camper for more than 3 years

Yeah exactly. You can get low-end response from sealing in the front, back, either or both, but you need some kind of coupling to your ear. The sound waves must have some way to generate pressure. This is assuming any reasonable transducer design currently in use. I'm sure there may be some novel solutions to this, but none I know of in common production.

 

[MidFiMoney]

Just got the Dunu Noble cable today and I must say the pairing is quite nice. I’ve tried the Moon Audio Silver Dragon and Bronze Dragon and Dita Truth (silver). The Dunu bests them all.

Silver Dragon: Adds a hair more resolution at the expense of sounding tad thin for my tastes.
Bronze Dragon: Not much difference from the stock cable to my ears. Aesthetically, it’s a nice match for the LCDi4.
Truth: Makes all other cables sound vailed. Extremely resolving in the mids and highs but extremely thin sounding. Stage widens a bit as well.
Noble: Improved clarity and resolution from end to end with a slightly wider stage. Resolution improvements are somewhere between the Silver Dragon and the Truth. Bass is cleaner, tighter, feels more impactful to my ears. Aesthetically sonically, the best match I’ve heard yet.

The improvements are tastefully balanced and never sound hyped or colored. If you’re in the market for a cable, take a look at the Dunu Noble. Just make sure you get the 0.78mm 2-pin version and be prepared to carefully remove the heat shrink.

 

[eternalEquilibrium]

9 months in and still amazed how they sound. From any source. They will be my endgame until anything by audeze do something better. This concoction will be the best for a long time. I love audeze for doing it. And I truly stand by what they have created.

 

[eternalEquilibrium]

I use eq because personally everything needs eq to suit their needs. I don't believe in the crap you hear 'oh I don't use eq'. It's a sad way to live. I've taken these lcdi4 though so much mud to get what I like and they are perfect for you to find your own music. Make the best you have, and sorry sad ****s miss out if they dont

 

[eternalEquilibrium]

The only iem I will buy is an upgrade to the lcdi4. I loved the Sony ierz1r's. And I always will. But as they are my second favourite. They can't hold a foot on the lcdi4. You either love the ierz1r's, OR you can turn something else into your mojo. That's what gives the audeze edge. They are that good. You buy them to perfect your signature. Not to be told how to listen

 

[Valaev71]

I idolize Audeze LCDi4, but I needed to get that comfort, which would give new sensations. And I understand that bass can only come out if the earpieces fit more tightly to the ears. For this, I made 2 headboards from Sennheiser px100 headphones. Having in stock the complete ear hooks, I combined the hooks and the head of the headphones. See what I did. Foldable design, very light and comfortable.

 

[BuddhaBruce]

I've got one for sale if anyone is interested!