[IridiumEagle]

Here is a composite I made that includes the FR of the pictured Audeze LCD4Z.
https://imgur.com/a/JSd3n3F

For sources of the images, see the original Reddit thread I replied to here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/59d3mv/got_my_lcd3_back_from_audeze_finally_asked_them/

And here is one that just compares my 2016 LCD-X to the 2018 LCD4Z pictured.

 

[davidimdpt]

I believe you have to look at the measuring equipment and settings as well. Audeze FRs are only comparable to Audeze FRs so maybe that 20db dip isn't really as severe as it looks. Point I'd take home is that there is a dip vs the quantity of dip. I'm still waiting for the FR on my 4s but really curious how it will compare with Dave's 4Z.

Fortunately all the FR graphs posted are all of audeze headphones using their equipment. The 4z is the only one that seems to have the 20 db drop compared to the seemingly standard 15db Audeze drop.

 

[2thfixr]

Tough to read that FR with all of them being so faint. Kudos to you on the effort though! So what I can gather from that is Dave's Z has the worst dip and greatest magnitude. The 4 has similar slope but peak from everywhere outside of the mid-high dip is lower so if you volume matched everything above and below the mid-high levels, the dipped mid-high freqs would come up therefore compensating for the mid-high dip over the Z. I can live with that.

 

[2thfixr]

And here is one that just compares my 2016 LCD-X to the 2018 LCD4Z pictured.

This is roughly what I'm hearing in my 4 vs X

 

[2thfixr]

Fortunately all the FR graphs posted are all of audeze headphones using their equipment. The 4z is the only one that seems to have the 20 db drop compared to the seemingly standard 15db Audeze drop.

Go by your ears though, I don't remember you complaining about mid-high dip in resolution or detail so maybe it's not a thing for you. You're using a Lyr 3 with bifrost multibit so maybe the combo is just working really well with your 4Zs. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[2thfixr]

Damn, I left my 4s at the office. Gotta run over to get them, need to burn them in ASAP.

 

[IridiumEagle]

This is roughly what I'm hearing in my 4 vs X

Sorry about the faintness. I have tried to do a direct compare between the 2016 4 and the 2018 4Z here:

 

[2thfixr]

Looking at compensated responses beyond 2kHz can be very misleading and will drastically change based on the compensation curve used. Most headphones will drop after 1kHz. Comparisons can only be made for headphones measured of other headphones on the same rig using the same compensation curves. Even there ,beyond 2kHz, measurements have to be be used cautiously, as what we have seen and shown that what we see in graphs is not what we always hear.

Statements such as 'There is a huge dip in the 1-5kHz region' based on graphs is plain wrong. LCD-4 follow the ideal response up to 3kHz. Beyond 2-3kHz, it is very hard to trust measurements, and there is a good deal of subjectiveness. That said, LCD-4 is as close to a natural presentation as it gets, and I would not adjust beyond 2dB in the upper-mids to accommodate for personal preferences.

I understand one would like less or more energy in different parts of the spectrum and that is personal preference, and there is no single headphone that would please everyone. There is no wrong or right, and one needs to choose the cans that make him/her smile.

Aren't all of these Audeze FRs created using the same equipment at Audeze? Should all be relative to each other. We're not comparing tested results from various sources, we're looking at Audeze FRs.

Also agree you need to choose what's right for you. That's why I'm going to burn in my 4s and see where it goes. So far I like the presentation but relative to my LCD-X there is a noticeable dip in the 1-5k region. I can hear it clear as day. However, that's not to say I want the detail that I'm hearing in the X. If I listen to my Utopias all night and switch to the LCD-X I find the X to be harsh and unforgiving. If I listen to the X all night, they sound fine. At first listen it's obvious the 4 has a special way of presenting music. The accuracy of the soundstage is like no other but it's the degree of mid-high dip and what exactly I'm giving up in terms of detail that I'm trying to discern. Looking at FRs from the same equipment taken in the same method is a good way to quantitatively check that but it's the ears that matter. Problem is based on what I'm seeing online, Audeze FRs are all over the place within the same model.

Happened to me with the LCD-2 w/fazor. The bass roll off on my first pair was unacceptable. 20db if I recall correctly and it started to roll off way eariler than other FRs I saw. That was visible in the FR comparisions and definitely audible when listening.

 

[davidimdpt]

Go by your ears though, I don't remember you complaining about mid-high dip in resolution or detail so maybe it's not a thing for you. You're using a Lyr 3 with bifrost multibit so maybe the combo is just working really well with your 4Zs. Be careful what you wish for.

True but I didn't have a 4 to AB them like you did. I bet you would have thoroughly enjoyed the 4z if you didn't have a 4 to listen to. Yes the 4z sound great. I'm definitely not taking anything back from my review. However, could it be even better without the big drop? That's the main question. Otherwise why compare headphones or upgrade?

 

[2thfixr]

Sorry about the faintness. I have tried to do a direct compare between the 2016 4 and the 2018 4Z here:

Don't be sorry man... I'm going to post the FR for my LCD-4 when I get it. Do me a favor and do an overlay with Dave's 4Z if you get some time.

 

[2thfixr]

True but I didn't have a 4 to AB them like you did. I bet you would have thoroughly enjoyed the 4z if you didn't have a 4 to listen to. Yes the 4z sound great. I'm definitely not taking anything back from my review. However, could it be even better without the big drop? That's the main question. Otherwise why compare headphones or upgrade?

What you don't know can't hurt you. LOL! I'd suggest heading down to Audeze on a Sat and meet up with Mark Cohen. Compare your headphones with their 4 and 4Z. Their 4Z is in the magnesium housing so might sound different but at least you can compare. Make sure you take your Surface pro and FLACs. Maybe even take your Bimby and Lyr 3 so you have a reference point. The Hugo 2 and the other Swiss monster amps they have will sound very different.

 

[IridiumEagle]

Don't be sorry man... I'm going to post the FR for my LCD-4 when I get it. Do me a favor and do an overlay with Dave's 4Z if you get some time.

Sure thing. 5 minutes work for me in Photoshop.

 

[KMann]

Aren't all of these Audeze FRs created using the same equipment at Audeze? Should all be relative to each other. We're not comparing tested results from various sources, we're looking at Audeze FRs.

Also agree you need to choose what's right for you. That's why I'm going to burn in my 4s and see where it goes. So far I like the presentation but relative to my LCD-X there is a noticeable dip in the 1-5k region. I can hear it clear as day. However, that's not to say I want the detail that I'm hearing in the X. If I listen to my Utopias all night and switch to the LCD-X I find the X to be harsh and unforgiving. If I listen to the X all night, they sound fine. At first listen it's obvious the 4 has a special way of presenting music. The accuracy of the soundstage is like no other but it's the degree of mid-high dip and what exactly I'm giving up in terms of detail that I'm trying to discern. Looking at FRs from the same equipment taken in the same method is a good way to quantitatively check that but it's the ears that matter. Problem is based on what I'm seeing online, Audeze FRs are all over the place within the same model.

Happened to me with the LCD-2 w/fazor. The bass roll off on my first pair was unacceptable. 20db if I recall correctly and it started to roll off way eariler than other FRs I saw. That was visible in the FR comparisions and definitely audible when listening.

All fair points. I was referring to earlier comments talking about 20dB dips and driving off cliffs, i.e., falling in to the trap of interpreting graphs as absolute values. Even when relative comparisons are made, I would still caution against reading too much beyond 2kHz.

 

[2thfixr]

Since you're from Audeze... you're probably VERY familiar with the sound signature of Audeze headphones. What can you tell us about the 4 vs the X. X clearly has more mid-high presentation but what is the 4 giving up. Clearly I love the imaging and resolving power of the headphones everywhere outside of the mid-high dip and bass presentation is amazing considering it's ported even relative to the X and the 2 w/fazor I own. Not willing to give any of that up but what are we missing in the mid-high region... the sustain of a cymbal, the delicate detail of metal strings vs nylon strings? Is that dip there on purpose to make it more musical? Or is it a trade off for the other things that make the LCD-4 so great? Clearly we all know the LCD-4 is at the top of the headphone game so there's no shame in discussing it's faults.

That said, kudos to Audeze for even providing FRs. It's that kind of transparency and level of customer support that sets you guys apart. I've had nothing but good experiences with you guys on the phone, via email and in person. I wish you'd supply the FRs in the case or on the USB like Sennheiser does with the HD800 and HD800S but beggars can't be choosers.

 

[omegaorgun]

Does anybody have a steel suspension headband they can trade?