[mixman]

Not sure why anyone would ever want more bass quantity than what the LCD-4z has to offer.

That being said however, keep in mind that your previous headphones were a closed back design which by design will have more bass than an open back version of the same.

Maybe try a experimenting with a different cable, pads and/or amplifier to get what you're looking for.

I believe @Kozwoz was talking about the LCD 2 Classics, which are open, not the closed back version.

Beat me to it.

 

[CreditingKarma]

I am referring to the LCD2 Classic - not the closed version. I'm finding the bass fairly subdued at least on my 4z. There is noticeably less impact and less quantity than the LCD2 Classic. I'm finding the presentation of 4z fairly mid-centric although it clearly does extend in both directions. With the LCD2 Classic I could dial in EQ to really make them rumble to the point that I could physically feel the bass but I'm unable to get this effect on the 4z. The 4z is clearly more resolving and easier to drive and the bass is cleaner but also leaner for that matter. I guess I had hoped that it would retain the bass of the LCD2 Classic whilst improving on the mids and treble. My pair is also exhibiting a thick lower mid range which i'm struggling to pin point but I read that this may dissipate with burn in.

I guess my point is that I appreciated the bass more on the LCD2 Classic but the 4z is clearer in every aspect. I sold my LCD2 Classic so I could get the 4z but there might be a case to have both. I listen to a lot of electronic music, drum and bass, dubstep and house where bass is the main focus.

I have a question regarding clamping force. Is there anyway to increase the clamping force of the 4z? I'm getting a good seal but I felt it was the better with the LCD2 Classic which had more clamping force. I'm not that sensitive to weight or clamping force like other users. Any tips on getting a better seal? The LCD2 Classic had a bit of a vacuum effect on the ears - I found this was a good thing in terms of keeping the seal extra tight but there is no vacuum effect on 4z...

I owned the 4z and found it to be a good headphone. If you are still in the return window I would suggest the you give the Abyss Diana Phi or AB-1266 Phi TC. Imo they both better the lcd 4z and 4. The TC had more bass slam and resolution than the 4z and 4. They do require more from your electronics though.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Just received my Audeze 4z. Resolution is much higher than on LCD2C but i'm somewhat underwhelmed by the bass. LCD2C has stronger bass impact / more quantity that also responded with EQ. Whatever I EQ I can't get the 4z to kick in the same way. The 4z is undeniably one of the best headphones I've ever listened to however I can't get it to rumble like a sub like on LCD2C. The bass on the LCD2C although not as textured as the 4z can literally make the earcups shake with power.

Quick question: what is your set-up?

4Z may easier to drive than 4, however it still harder than 2C.

And as you mentioned, 2C by default already has more body in bass department. Different headphone (even tho same brand) could lead to different tuning, different purpose. 4Z is the flagship, and for their flagship perhaps Audeze want to focus more on balancing the harmony in music (more reference tuning) rather than giving slight boost on bass section.

Having said that, bass on 4Z is definitely enough for me, and has same quantity/bigger than many of other high end headphones out there

 

[astrostar59]

I owned the 4z and found it to be a good headphone. If you are still in the return window I would suggest the you give the Abyss Diana Phi or AB-1266 Phi TC. Imo they both better the lcd 4z and 4. The TC had more bass slam and resolution than the 4z and 4. They do require more from your electronics though.

Yes the Abyss TC is the ultimate destination HP for those who can afford it. But the 4z is nice, I still enjoy my LCD4 for example. The TC can be bought as a bundle with the X1 amp for those interested. That is end game IMO, no messing around, just go for the best and best done with it.

 

[Kozwoz]

I will try give the Abyss TC an audition. Sometimes I'm really impressed by the 4z in that it gives a heightened sense of resolution and sometimes I feel like it's compressed somewhere in the mid range. Listening to drum and bass and house music on the 4z is a bit painful I have to admit. There is clearly some sibilance on my pair and some audible peaks around 10k and 14k and beyond. I do hope this settles down eventually with burn in. The bass is out of focus somewhat and lacks definition on really heavy bass material such us dub, drum and bass and electronic music. I keep wanting to turn the volume up but I just get greeted with a lot of high frequency content that doesn't sound all that smooth. If someone feels like I'm being way to critical I encourage you to go listen to some well recorded drum and bass with the 4z and tell me what you hear. I'm literally getting no sub bass and lots of snare sibilance. Listening to a variety of sources including Benchmark DAC3 HGC, Sony NW-ZX507, Questyle QP2R, Macbook Pro headphone output and iPhone 7 and the results are fairly consistent. This is obviously why you try before you buy... but had hoped that it would be a much better version of the LCD2 Classic which is actually a lot smoother sounding.

 

[mixman]

I will try give the Abyss TC an audition. Sometimes I'm really impressed by the 4z in that it gives a heightened sense of resolution and sometimes I feel like it's compressed somewhere in the mid range. Listening to drum and bass and house music on the 4z is a bit painful I have to admit. There is clearly some sibilance on my pair and some audible peaks around 10k and 14k and beyond. I do hope this settles down eventually with burn in. The bass is out of focus somewhat and lacks definition on really heavy bass material such us dub, drum and bass and electronic music. I keep wanting to turn the volume up but I just get greeted with a lot of high frequency content that doesn't sound all that smooth. If someone feels like I'm being way to critical I encourage you to go listen to some well recorded drum and bass with the 4z and tell me what you hear. I'm literally getting no sub bass and lots of snare sibilance. Listening to a variety of sources including Benchmark DAC3 HGC, Sony NW-ZX507, Questyle QP2R, Macbook Pro headphone output and iPhone 7 and the results are fairly consistent. This is obviously why you try before you buy... but had hoped that it would be a much better version of the LCD2 Classic which is actually a lot smoother sounding.

Also try the LCD4, if you can take the weight. It is a bit smoother sounding than the 4z.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

I will try give the Abyss TC an audition. Sometimes I'm really impressed by the 4z in that it gives a heightened sense of resolution and sometimes I feel like it's compressed somewhere in the mid range. Listening to drum and bass and house music on the 4z is a bit painful I have to admit. There is clearly some sibilance on my pair and some audible peaks around 10k and 14k and beyond. I do hope this settles down eventually with burn in. The bass is out of focus somewhat and lacks definition on really heavy bass material such us dub, drum and bass and electronic music. I keep wanting to turn the volume up but I just get greeted with a lot of high frequency content that doesn't sound all that smooth. If someone feels like I'm being way to critical I encourage you to go listen to some well recorded drum and bass with the 4z and tell me what you hear. I'm literally getting no sub bass and lots of snare sibilance. Listening to a variety of sources including Benchmark DAC3 HGC, Sony NW-ZX507, Questyle QP2R, Macbook Pro headphone output and iPhone 7 and the results are fairly consistent. This is obviously why you try before you buy... but had hoped that it would be a much better version of the LCD2 Classic which is actually a lot smoother sounding.

Interesting set up. I don't think any of your portable set up perform optimal for 4Z. Standalone DAP, laptop, and iPhone won't do justice.

About Benchmark, it's a great product, and technical wise should drive 4Z just fine. However its sound character is toward neutral, try to present the least colour as possible, and won't give extra punch on bottom section and won't smoothen any sharp sound from recording.

Perhaps should give LCD-3 a try.

 

[commtrd]

My 4z have always sounded great to me. Zero problems with sound reproduction. I did try different pads, created a mess. Put original pads back on. I would not recommend changing pads on 4z.

Will TC be adequately driven by current amp GSX Mini?

 

[Kozwoz]

Interesting set up. I don't think any of your portable set up perform optimal for 4Z. Standalone DAP, laptop, and iPhone won't do justice.

About Benchmark, it's a great product, and technical wise should drive 4Z just fine. However its sound character is toward neutral, try to present the least colour as possible, and won't give extra punch on bottom section and won't smoothen any sharp sound from recording.

Perhaps should give LCD-3 a try.

The QP2R and Sony NW-ZX507 are fairly smooth and forgiving in their presentations. They do have enough volume but they don't provide the dynamic slam that the 4z deserve. Although I thought the whole point of the 4z was that it was easy to drive. I'm a bit surprised they used a cable with a quarter inch jack as most low power sources have 3.5mm so using an adapter is inevitable and inconvenient. I could get a cable with 4.4mm pentaconn. Does going balanced help the 4z? Also has anyone tried a pure copper cable with the 4z - does it smoothen it out?

 

[astrostar59]

My 4z have always sounded great to me. Zero problems with sound reproduction. I did try different pads, created a mess. Put original pads back on. I would not recommend changing pads on 4z.

Will TC be adequately driven by current amp GSX Mini?

Yes the GSX mini is fine with the Abyss, very good in fact.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

The QP2R and Sony NW-ZX507 are fairly smooth and forgiving in their presentations. They do have enough volume but they don't provide the dynamic slam that the 4z deserve. Although I thought the whole point of the 4z was that it was easy to drive. I'm a bit surprised they used a cable with a quarter inch jack as most low power sources have 3.5mm so using an adapter is inevitable and inconvenient. I could get a cable with 4.4mm pentaconn. Does going balanced help the 4z? Also has anyone tried a pure copper cable with the 4z - does it smoothen it out?

My guess the whole point of 4z is create an easier to drive headphone than 4. You do need a proper desktop amp to make it really shine, and still fairly good with portable set up like Hugo 2 or WA11.

Going with balance cable may help or not help depend on your amplification system.

In QP2R case, it use "real" balance amplifier, so you will get more power. However, based on: https://www.audeze.com/products/lcd-4z it needs at the very least more than 100mw while QP2r in balance https://www.questyle.com/en/product/QP2R produces 70mw at 32 ohm. I'm not good at electronic formula, but I think QP2R would be barely/not enough juice for 4Z.

In Walkman case https://www.sony-asia.com/electronics/walkman/nw-zx500-series/specifications it also use real balance amplification, and able to produce 200 mw at 16 ohm, I think this one will suit better in term of power (not sound, that would depend on your taste).

Out of context, here a photo of 4Z in black and white, just because I think she looks sexier in monochrome.

 

[SteveM324]

Also try the LCD4, if you can take the weight. It is a bit smoother sounding than the 4z.

Last year I compared my 4z to a 4 in my system. The difference was very small and I came away liking my 4z better. The 4z felt lighter on my head and a bit less dark in SQ but definitely not bright. I also thought the 4z imaged better. If you don’t like the the 4z, I wouldn’t recommend the 4 or even vice versa because difference is so small.

 

[Kozwoz]

Last year I compared my 4z to a 4 in my system. The difference was very small and I came away liking my 4z better. The 4z felt lighter on my head and a bit less dark in SQ but definitely not bright. I also thought the 4z imaged better. If you don’t like the the 4z, I wouldn’t recommend the 4 or even vice versa because difference is so small.

Does anyone use the 4z to listen to mostly electronic dance music? Dance music is the only situation in which I find the 4z too bright but this is in part due to the recordings themselves. It's like the balance is off. I do not find it a particularly forgiving headphone and it's presentation is fairly neutral which doesn't necessarily work great for dance music. The upper treble provides great detail but it's also a bit peaky when listening to electronic dance music. I also find my pair doesn't respond great to boosting bass. My pair exhibits a thick lower mid range. Boosting the bass by even a couple db makes everything sound sluggish and muddy lacking definition. The treble peak requires a massive high shelf or huge cut and by the time I've effectively muted it everything sounds woolly and veiled. I'm not looking for a bass head headphone by any means but I don't think 4z is great for this specific genre of music.

 

[SteveM324]

The QP2R and Sony NW-ZX507 are fairly smooth and forgiving in their presentations. They do have enough volume but they don't provide the dynamic slam that the 4z deserve. Although I thought the whole point of the 4z was that it was easy to drive. I'm a bit surprised they used a cable with a quarter inch jack as most low power sources have 3.5mm so using an adapter is inevitable and inconvenient. I could get a cable with 4.4mm pentaconn. Does going balanced help the 4z? Also has anyone tried a pure copper cable with the 4z - does it smoothen it out?
[/QUOT

My stock 4z cable is silver plated copper and it has a 4 pin XLR for balanced amps. I burned it in for about 200hrs and then compared it to my pure silver Norne Silvergarde S3 and to my 4 pure copper cables, Wywires Platinum, Double Helix Complement 2, Norne Draug and Corpse Gravedigger cables. I prefer all 5 of my aftermarket cables to the stock cable. The stock cable looks well made but the tonality is off and it doesn’t come off sounding natural. There are a lot of good options. I like my Norne Silvergarde S3 cable and my Wywires Platinum the best overall but they are expensive. I recommend ditching the stock Audeze cable but the same goes for any stock cable.

 

[SteveM324]

Interesting set up. I don't think any of your portable set up perform optimal for 4Z. Standalone DAP, laptop, and iPhone won't do justice.

About Benchmark, it's a great product, and technical wise should drive 4Z just fine. However its sound character is toward neutral, try to present the least colour as possible, and won't give extra punch on bottom section and won't smoothen any sharp sound from recording.

Perhaps should give LCD-3 a try.

I totally agree. You may achieve adequate volume level with a DAP driving the 4z but you won’t get anywhere near the SQ that the 4z is capable of delivering no matter what cable that you use with that set up.