[astrostar59]

Can someone compare the LCD-4 to the LCD-2C and/or Hifiman Arya?

I had the LCD2-C for a year, while I also had the LCD4 and still do. The LCD2-C is nice for the money, and forgiving of a lower quality DAC, but it doesn't get close to the LCD4 level of SQ. The soundstage, detail, creamy mids, layering, everything is much better on the LCD4. So IMO not much in common, except maybe a bit of the Audeze warmth.

 

[491838]

Okay, I'll let you know when I get to hook my LCD-4 to my computer and listen to the track. I have to let you know, in advance, though, that I'm aware of Tyll's misgivings about what he considered to be flaws in the treble of some LCD cans, without sharing many of those misgivings myself, especially when it comes to those cans I own (the 4, i4, and the X), although I did and do respect Tyll's opinions about other things, and considered his general contribution to the hobby to be very worthwhile. I enjoy the treble on all my LCD cans, and do not find anything to be as problematic with them, as he did. I have to add, to be fair, that I am also not an obsessive measurement fetishist who will comb all frequencies in the spectrum with a tooth comb, looking for dips, valleys, peaks, and whatnot to complain or gripe about. I just let me ears be my guide, and keep the can if it makes the music feel and sound good. If the music hurts my ears, or sounds unpleasant in anyway, then the can goes back immediately on the market. It is the way I treat all the cans I get, without exception, and there is no favoritism in favor of Audeze or any brand of cans. I recently had to let go of a pair of focal cans because I found them to be too aggressive and harsh at the top end for my ears, although many expert reviews (Including some of Tyll's) were full of praises for them, and that made me very eager to acquire them initially. In practice, I could not stand listening to them for even 5 minutes because of the unpleasantness at the top end. This is a kind of "introduction" to let you know where I'm coming from.

I shall let you know what I think when I have listened to the youtube video with my LCD-4.

I think Tyll mostly complained about the LCD-2 with the treble being unclear and he was definitely right. It doesn't have enough clarity to match the detail. This has nothing to do with measurements actually. It's a timbre issue which can't be measured (at least not currently). The LCD-2 has the detail of a $1K headphone but it's too spread out and unfocused and on top of that it also causes some ringing where our ears (or at least mine and some other people's) resonate naturally.

I should probably see for myself and audition the LCD-4 at some point though it would require quite a trip to visit that store. Tyll praised the LCD-4 because in his view it fixed the treble issues of other LCD headphones so maybe the timbre matches the detail then.

 

[Jvincent]

I think Tyll mostly complained about the LCD-2 with the treble being unclear and he was definitely right. It doesn't have enough clarity to match the detail. This has nothing to do with measurements actually. It's a timbre issue which can't be measured (at least not currently). The LCD-2 has the detail of a $1K headphone but it's too spread out and unfocused and on top of that it also causes some ringing where our ears (or at least mine and some other people's) resonate naturally.

I should probably see for myself and audition the LCD-4 at some point though it would require quite a trip to visit that store. Tyll praised the LCD-4 because in his view it fixed the treble issues of other LCD headphones so maybe the timbre matches the detail then.

In my opinion all LCD headphones have some tonal timbre issues... some more so than others. I own a pair of LCD-4's and find that the reveal plugin helps to alleviate this on the 4's. Running reveal at 100% wet really does a great job of making all instruments sound natural. If possible I would see if you're able to use the plugin during your demo. (if playing through Roon, Audeze has a preset for their full LCD line in there already that includes the reveal settings for the LCD 4. also run the preset on the Audeze Linear filter setting).

 

[sahmen]

I think Tyll mostly complained about the LCD-2 with the treble being unclear and he was definitely right. It doesn't have enough clarity to match the detail. This has nothing to do with measurements actually. It's a timbre issue which can't be measured (at least not currently). The LCD-2 has the detail of a $1K headphone but it's too spread out and unfocused and on top of that it also causes some ringing where our ears (or at least mine and some other people's) resonate naturally.

I should probably see for myself and audition the LCD-4 at some point though it would require quite a trip to visit that store. Tyll praised the LCD-4 because in his view it fixed the treble issues of other LCD headphones so maybe the timbre matches the detail then.

Not that it matters too much to me since I have made my thoughts clear on the subject, but i think your research on Tyll's thoughts about the LCD-4 is incomplete :

See his full review of the LCD-4 here:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/technologically-impressive-lcd-4-planar-magnetic-headphone

Check out the melodrama in his tone, when he speaks about the treble, as if he has hit upon some tragedy of Shakespearian proportions:

"...Treble - All this good stuff...and then, sadly, troubles with the trebles. I've always had trouble with LCD series headphone treble, but I never really got a good grip on what I was hearing. Then the LCD-4 comes along having a somewhat cleaner response than previous models, and all of a sudden the exact problem with the treble became clear..so to speak.

Most all LCD headphones I've measured in the past have a distinct drop in treble response starting at 4kHz and going up to about 8kHz. Notches in response are harder to hear than spikes in response, and previously I didn't hear it as a distinct problem. I suppose it was obscured a bit by low level distortions or resonances in the neighborhood"... etc etc.

and now for the video, in which he repeats some of the same stuff in the review :



Finally see his post-review remarks about this, in response to other reports of other shootouts that contest his own findings when comparing the LCD-4 with the Utopia here:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...ame-adjustments-focal-utopia-and-audeze-lcd-4

My own impression has always been that the LCD-4 rocks my world, with and/or without the roon and other Audeze EQ filters. Of course YMMV, as would others. Thanks.

 

[Jvincent]

Not that it matters too much to me since I have made my thoughts clear on the subject, but i think your research on Tyll's thoughts about the LCD-4 is incomplete :

See his full review of the LCD-4 here:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/technologically-impressive-lcd-4-planar-magnetic-headphone

Check out the melodrama in his tone, when he speaks about the treble, as if he has hit upon some tragedy of Shakespearian proportions:

"...Treble - All this good stuff...and then, sadly, troubles with the trebles. I've always had trouble with LCD series headphone treble, but I never really got a good grip on what I was hearing. Then the LCD-4 comes along having a somewhat cleaner response than previous models, and all of a sudden the exact problem with the treble became clear..so to speak.

Most all LCD headphones I've measured in the past have a distinct drop in treble response starting at 4kHz and going up to about 8kHz. Notches in response are harder to hear than spikes in response, and previously I didn't hear it as a distinct problem. I suppose it was obscured a bit by low level distortions or resonances in the neighborhood"... etc etc.

and now for the video, in which he repeats some of the same stuff in the review :



Finally see his post-review remarks about this, in response to other reports of other shootouts that contest his own findings when comparing the LCD-4 with the Utopia here:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...ame-adjustments-focal-utopia-and-audeze-lcd-4

My own impression has always been that the LCD-4 rocks my world, with and/or without the roon and other Audeze EQ filters. Of course YMMV, as would others. Thanks.

I must have pushed the filters a bit harder than intended earlier... the lcd-4 without the filters is still an amazing headphone, I would still own it if the filters weren't out, I just think it makes the headphone better.

 

[astrostar59]

In my opinion all LCD headphones have some tonal timbre issues... some more so than others. I own a pair of LCD-4's and find that the reveal plugin helps to alleviate this on the 4's. Running reveal at 100% wet really does a great job of making all instruments sound natural. If possible I would see if you're able to use the plugin during your demo. (if playing through Roon, Audeze has a preset for their full LCD line in there already that includes the reveal settings for the LCD 4. also run the preset on the Audeze Linear filter setting).

''also run the preset on the Audeze Linear filter setting).'' what is that? I use the Roon LCD4 filter as is. Is this something else / extra?

 

[491838]

Not that it matters too much to me since I have made my thoughts clear on the subject, but i think your research on Tyll's thoughts about the LCD-4 is incomplete :

See his full review of the LCD-4 here:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/technologically-impressive-lcd-4-planar-magnetic-headphone

Check out the melodrama in his tone, when he speaks about the treble, as if he has hit upon some tragedy of Shakespearian proportions:

"...Treble - All this good stuff...and then, sadly, troubles with the trebles. I've always had trouble with LCD series headphone treble, but I never really got a good grip on what I was hearing. Then the LCD-4 comes along having a somewhat cleaner response than previous models, and all of a sudden the exact problem with the treble became clear..so to speak.

Most all LCD headphones I've measured in the past have a distinct drop in treble response starting at 4kHz and going up to about 8kHz. Notches in response are harder to hear than spikes in response, and previously I didn't hear it as a distinct problem. I suppose it was obscured a bit by low level distortions or resonances in the neighborhood"... etc etc.

and now for the video, in which he repeats some of the same stuff in the review :



Finally see his post-review remarks about this, in response to other reports of other shootouts that contest his own findings when comparing the LCD-4 with the Utopia here:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...ame-adjustments-focal-utopia-and-audeze-lcd-4

My own impression has always been that the LCD-4 rocks my world, with and/or without the roon and other Audeze EQ filters. Of course YMMV, as would others. Thanks.

He says in the video that the treble has great clarity overall which lets him judge the tonality of the headphone more easily. By neutralhead standards, yes, the LCD-4 has poor treble response but it can be fixed via EQ.

I already EQ my LCD-2F to preference but the timbre, which is the representation of detail/texture, is off with and without EQ. It sounds fuzzy or unfocused which leads to poor imaging it seems particularly because the upper treble is not very clear. It has detail but less than ideal clarity due to poor timbre. Timbre isn't strictly related to tonality/frequency response. It's just how the particular driver represents finite detail.

 

[Jvincent]

''also run the preset on the Audeze Linear filter setting).'' what is that? I use the Roon LCD4 filter as is. Is this something else / extra?

Next time you are in roon go to your DSP settings, Audeze presets, LCD-4 then at the bottom of the screen in blue is a Customize button. set the Mix to 100% wet, and change the filter to Audeze Linear. It adds a Short delay when starting music to do all the processing but I believe it makes a noticeable difference over the low latency filter.

 

[astrostar59]

OK got it. I was already on 100& wet and do prefer that setting. I seem to prefer low latency, linear seams flatter?
The EQ fixes a lot of the LCD4 issues. But I find Logitech Media Server sounds better than Roon on my Server. Maybe as Roon has high processing affecting the sound?
LMS is clearer and cleaner. I use that on my 2 channel, and use Roon for Headphone use as need the EQ. On the Abyss TC I can use either as don't need EQ on that.

 

[silversurfer616]

Did try the Audeze setting in Roon but it takes off the edge which I like. The result is too smooth and unengaging.

 

[jlbrach]

I find the roon setting makes the soundstage marginally louder but I do agree it also softens the presentation ..I wouldnt call it unengaging but I would say I find it a bit less detailed

 

[astrostar59]

Without the Audeze EQ the LCD4 to me sounds a bit duller up top, and has that 4-6khz dip, unlike many HPs have have a hump there. Using any EQ is re-sampling the data, so unfortunately a bit like taking a photocopy of the original, throws something away. But the gains using the setting is better than the losses, mainly in the treble lift and details.
With the Abyss it doesn't need assistance, so I use Logitech Media Server on that HP, as that sounds better than Roon (clearer and faster).

I am hoping at some point Roon will catch up LMS with successive updates. LMS is old and not well developed in comparison, but it is clearly sounding better (no pun intended).

 

[Arniesb]

Without the Audeze EQ the LCD4 to me sounds a bit duller up top, and has that 4-6khz dip, unlike many HPs have have a hump there. Using any EQ is re-sampling the data, so unfortunately a bit like taking a photocopy of the original, throws something away. But the gains using the setting is better than the losses, mainly in the treble lift and details.
With the Abyss it doesn't need assistance, so I use Logitech Media Server on that HP, as that sounds better than Roon (clearer and faster).

I am hoping at some point Roon will catch up LMS with successive updates. LMS is old and not well developed in comparison, but it is clearly sounding better (no pun intended).

I think Gigantic earpads suck all the air it have up top. Bass could gain Wolume as is it gets more seal, but Upper mids and highs can loss sparkle.

 

[801evan]

Wow. Thank you for the Reveal+ tip. I've tried the legacy Reveal on the LCD3 and didn't like it as much so I didn't give it a shot on the LCD4. For the pass two weeks I've been using Tonebooster's Morphit and have been baking in the effect through dbpoweramp. I got the setting right at 29% wet and thought it's the best I've heard on the LCD4. But this Reveal+ on 100% wet is much better. It seemingly 'closes in' the soundstage but it is a very faithful correction. The decay and timing sounds more correct. The voice has been filled in on the lower mids. The stage has a floor now.

I'm going to miss the sound profile of Morphit. It sounds more 'high-end' as it's a presentation similar to all top tier HPS with that missing lower mids but this Reveal+ just gives a complete picture.

 

[sahmen]

Can anyone tell me what happens to the Reveal plugin when downloaded and installed onto a Mac Computer? Each time I have downloaded and installed one it just seems to disappear, I do not know where to locate it on the computer, since it does not show seem to up in the Applications folder, like other applications do (unless I am not looking in the right place inside the Applications folder)

The other question I have is that how do you use the Reveal plugin settings with Roon?