[johnzz4]

I have the Bryston BHA1 currently and I think it's quite good.
But I have a lead on a used Simaudio 430HA (without DAC) and am wondering if I should get it and sell my Bryston or just leave things as they are.
Unfortunately I have no place to audition the 430HA.

Any suggestions? Has anyone heard both of these amps?

-- Sanjay

Might want to consider the Wells Audio Milo in the line up - very impressive with the LCD4s. I've auditioned the 430HAD but never the Bryson.

 

[schugh]

Might want to consider the Wells Audio Milo in the line up - very impressive with the LCD4s. I've auditioned the 430HAD but never the Bryson.

Actually, I did audition the Milo at home for a weekend and had a good comparison against the Bryston a few months ago.
Definitely the Milo had way more gobs of power and I could tell there are some differences in the sound but nothing really stood out as better to make me want to change over from my Bryston.
 
I think I will save my money for now and stay with the Bryston and pass on the 430HA.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

How did you reach that conclusion without hearing both?

i was able to audition the Bryston briefly. it was good. about on par with my Oppo HA-1, probably a tick better.

but i ended up blind-buying the Moon Neo 430 instead (yes, primarily based on reviews and word of mouth).

in my opinion, i chose......... wisely. but again, the improvement is not commiserate with cost. i.e. the Moon isn't 3x as good as the Bryston, tho it costs 3x as much. but it is noticeably better. as with everything at this "summit" level, you have to decide if those diminishing returns on the $ is worth it to you. personally, i'm ecstatic with my Neo 430 and haven't had a second of buyers remorse. you couldn't pry it out of my cold, dead hands.

 

[mulder01]

  He probably read the enormous number of exemplary reviews available about the Moon 430....I know thats how i got interested in it myself

 
You can find people gushing over just about any expensive audio product.  
 
I've also heard a lot of 'meh' impressions of the 430.  
 
Saying that one amp (that you own and have an interest in) is better than another amp that you haven't given a proper chance or even heard, isn't helpful to the person asking for direct comparisons between the two.  

 

[goldendarko]

 
You can find people gushing over just about any expensive audio product.  
 
I've also heard a lot of 'meh' impressions of the 430.  
 
Saying that one amp (that you own and have an interest in) is better than another amp that you haven't given a proper chance or even heard, isn't helpful to the person asking for direct comparisons between the two.  

 


I did a review of the 430 a while back and had the ALO Audio Studio Six & Cavalli Liquid Gold in house at the same time. The Studio 6 & Liquid Gold were both neck and neck for me personally with the 430 a distant third. I don't really feel it did anything better than those other 2 amps to be at the same price as them.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

You can find people gushing over just about any expensive audio product.  

I've also heard a lot of 'meh' impressions of the 430.  

Saying that one amp (that you own and have an interest in) is better than another amp that you haven't given a proper chance or even heard, isn't helpful to the person asking for direct comparisons between the two.  

i couldn't sleep all night, hoping i have passed the Mulder01 legitimacy test...

 

[JohnnyCakes]

 
You can find people gushing over just about any expensive audio product.  
 
I've also heard a lot of 'meh' impressions of the 430.  
 
Saying that one amp (that you own and have an interest in) is better than another amp that you haven't given a proper chance or even heard, isn't helpful to the person asking for direct comparisons between the two.  

 


the 430 a distant third. I don't really feel it did anything better than those other 2 amps to be at the same price as them.

interesting wording... "did anything better" ...

i think we have quite different theories of an amp's purpose overall.

 

[jlbrach]

   
You can find people gushing over just about any expensive audio product.  
 
I've also heard a lot of 'meh' impressions of the 430.  
 
Saying that one amp (that you own and have an interest in) is better than another amp that you haven't given a proper chance or even heard, isn't helpful to the person asking for direct comparisons between the two.  

nobody is suggesting that a good review means everybody will like a particular product but when I begin to explore an amp or Dac etc i always start by reading reviews and when a product has such positive near unanimous praise such as the 430 or the Hugo etc i then seriously look into it...same thing with music,I look for reviews and then pursue music well reviewed in genre's I enjoy

 

[JohnnyCakes]

  I've also heard a lot of 'meh' impressions of the 430.  

 
your comment above got me to thinking..... and i did some research.
 
i put "Moon Neo 430 review" into Google.  got about 20 quality hits.  everything from big tech sites like CNET to personal audiophile blogs like our own Headphone Guru.  
 
not one of them, EVEN ONE, was negative.  hell, negative... i couldn't find one that was anything less than exuberant in their praise of the Moon.  only a couple of those 20 thought that it was good, but not $4k good.  the vast majority thought it warrants its high price tag.
 
please, double check my research.  i'd honestly love to see these "meh" impressions you speak of.  and that doesn't mean you quote some dingbat user-post on an audio forum, this one or otherwise.  you could post a glass of filtered water on the internet and find a thousand people who hate it.  and by the way, i'd bet dollars to donuts that 80% of any "meh" user reviews were judging it pre-300hrs burn in.  that was the story with Steve Guttenberg at CNET, who started his review wondering what all the fuss was about until he burned it in thoroughly, then sang a 180 degree different tune.  
 
all that said, the Neo 430 isn't for everyone.  it was perfect for me.... because i value simplicity and and something at or d*mn close to "the best".  i wanted an amp with an integrated DAC that could handle both my power-thirsty LCD-4 and my efficient Utopia and everything in between, and somehow makes them all sound at their best.  and any future TOTL headphone that comes out that i might get.  i wanted an amp that does not exaggerate bass, color the mids, or create sibilant highs.  i wanted an amp that, as Tyll so perfectly put it "gets the hell out of the way of the music".  i wanted an amp that makes listening to music at relatively high volumes for extended periods a non-painful event.  i wanted deep space silence and maximum dynamic range.  and i wanted an amp that will never, never be wanting for power.  
 
plug all that into the calculator and the Moon Neo 430 pretty much stands alone in delivering that recipe.  

 

[mulder01]

i couldn't sleep all night, hoping i have passed the Mulder01 legitimacy test...

 
Just reminding people of the head fi rules (not mine) that often seem to get forgotten.
 
 

  nobody is suggesting that a good review means everybody will like a particular product but when I begin to explore an amp or Dac etc i always start by reading reviews and when a product has such positive near unanimous praise such as the 430 or the Hugo etc i then seriously look into it...same thing with music,I look for reviews and then pursue music well reviewed in genre's I enjoy

 
That's fair enough reasoning - I bought my amp and I'm sure many people have bought numerous products using the same method.  Doesn't automatically make X amp the best though.
 
 

   
your comment above got me to thinking..... and i did some research.
 
i put "Moon Neo 430 review" into Google.  got about 20 quality hits.  everything from big tech sites like CNET to personal audiophile blogs like our own Headphone Guru.  
 
not one of them, EVEN ONE, was negative.  hell, negative... i couldn't find one that was anything less than exuberant in their praise of the Moon.  only a couple of those 20 thought that it was good, but not $4k good.  the vast majority thought it warrants its high price tag.
 
please, double check my research.  i'd honestly love to see these "meh" impressions you speak of.  and that doesn't mean you quote some dingbat user-post on an audio forum, this one or otherwise.  you could post a glass of filtered water on the internet and find a thousand people who hate it.  and by the way, i'd bet dollars to donuts that 80% of any "meh" user reviews were judging it pre-300hrs burn in.  that was the story with Steve Guttenberg at CNET, who started his review wondering what all the fuss was about until he burned it in thoroughly, then sang a 180 degree different tune.  

 
If your research is looking at extensive reviews on commercial sites then yes you will almost always find all positive reviews.  Pretty rare that a magazine will review a product badly.  If you don't want to hear the opinions of "some dingbat user on an audio forum" (the people who have put their own time and money into a product) and didn't like it, then I won't quote any of them.  The amp I own - Violectric v281 is half the price of the Moon 430 yet there have been more than a couple of people sell their 430 for it.  I have also spoken to people that have tried the moon and loved it but also people who said it was ok but didn't see why it cost so much.
 
When I was first looking at high end headphones, I was ONLY looking at closed options (this was years ago when the market was smaller) and my "research" came up with the ultrasone edition 8 - everyone who had one loved it and there was positive reviews everywhere.  But ask anyone in the hobby and they will all look at you like "fkn wot m8?"  So it's up to you if you want to ignore the everyday consumer in the hobby for glossy reviews, but personally I've not found it the most reliable way to help you pick the best product for your needs.
 
 

  that could handle both my power-thirsty LCD-4 and my efficient Utopia and everything in between, and somehow makes them all sound at their best.  and any future TOTL headphone that comes out that i might get.  i wanted an amp that does not exaggerate bass, color the mids, or create sibilant highs.  i wanted an amp that, as Tyll so perfectly put it "gets the hell out of the way of the music".  i wanted an amp that makes listening to music at relatively high volumes for extended periods a non-painful event.  i wanted deep space silence and maximum dynamic range.  and i wanted an amp that will never, never be wanting for power.  
 
plug all that into the calculator and the Moon Neo 430 pretty much stands alone in delivering that recipe.  

 
Again, the 281 (and probably a bucketload of other amps) have the same description.  
And as you said it's not for everyone - maybe schugh will prefer his Bryston in a side by side test for whatever reason.  Nobody has given him any real reason as to why he won't - except for "I have this one and I like it so it must be better than yours"
Look up reviews of the Bryston (not just end users who know what they're talking about - I'm talking sponsored glossy reviews) and tell me that it's not "a brilliant performer" and that it doesn't "bat above it's weight" etc etc.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

   
If your research is looking at extensive reviews on commercial sites then yes you will almost always find all positive reviews.  Pretty rare that a magazine will review a product badly. 

 
 
not true.  most reviews do a good job listing positives and negatives.  and most other amps have negatives.  
 
i struggled to find any negatives about the 430 in any review.  like i said, a couple reviewers dinged the price.  one guy thought the DAC was "good but not great".  that's about it.  
 
but once people get as cynical as you about "the industry" and how everyone who says anything in an official capacity is bought and paid for, then little will change your mind.
 
 
but hey man, believe and like what you want.  

 

[ufospls2]

   
your comment above got me to thinking..... and i did some research.
 
i put "Moon Neo 430 review" into Google.  got about 20 quality hits.  everything from big tech sites like CNET to personal audiophile blogs like our own Headphone Guru.  
 
not one of them, EVEN ONE, was negative.  hell, negative... i couldn't find one that was anything less than exuberant in their praise of the Moon.  only a couple of those 20 thought that it was good, but not $4k good.  the vast majority thought it warrants its high price tag.
 
please, double check my research.  i'd honestly love to see these "meh" impressions you speak of.  and that doesn't mean you quote some dingbat user-post on an audio forum, this one or otherwise.  you could post a glass of filtered water on the internet and find a thousand people who hate it.  and by the way, i'd bet dollars to donuts that 80% of any "meh" user reviews were judging it pre-300hrs burn in.  that was the story with Steve Guttenberg at CNET, who started his review wondering what all the fuss was about until he burned it in thoroughly, then sang a 180 degree different tune.  
 
all that said, the Neo 430 isn't for everyone.  it was perfect for me.... because i value simplicity and and something at or d*mn close to "the best".  i wanted an amp with an integrated DAC that could handle both my power-thirsty LCD-4 and my efficient Utopia and everything in between, and somehow makes them all sound at their best.  and any future TOTL headphone that comes out that i might get.  i wanted an amp that does not exaggerate bass, color the mids, or create sibilant highs.  i wanted an amp that, as Tyll so perfectly put it "gets the hell out of the way of the music".  i wanted an amp that makes listening to music at relatively high volumes for extended periods a non-painful event.  i wanted deep space silence and maximum dynamic range.  and i wanted an amp that will never, never be wanting for power.  
 
plug all that into the calculator and the Moon Neo 430 pretty much stands alone in delivering that recipe.  

The 430 is a great amp (I very heavily considered buying one but ended up going a different route,) but that sort of blind adulation in the bold text above is a bit narrow sighted. It may be perfect for you, in that it has a DAC built in, is powerful, sounds good etc...but it isn't the be all and end all of headphone amplification. In my opinion, no amp (or DAC) is. Some people may find that there are other amps that do what they need better, and that is perfectly ok! If you take out the requirement of needing an integrated DAC, a whole world of amplification opens up, none of which are "The Best," but some of which may be better suited to the person in questions task at hand. It may be perfect for you, and that is great, but it isn't "The Best", and never will be, as in my opinion, "best" really depends on what you are looking for.  

 

[up late]

... but once people get as cynical as you about "the industry" and how everyone who says anything in an official capacity is bought and paid for, then little will change your mind.


but hey man, believe and like what you want.  

i think that criticism is unwarranted. he takes a common sense approach to the evaluation and purchasing of "head-fi" products, and obviously doesn't buy into the hype that so often surrounds them. whereas yours is more enthusiastic. there's room for both in this hobby.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

i think that criticism is unwarranted. he takes a common sense approach to the evaluation and purchasing of "head-fi" products, and obviously doesn't buy into the hype that so often surrounds them. whereas yours is more enthusiastic. there's room for both in this hobby.

i also take "a common sense approach to the evaluation and purchase of head-fi products". you think i throw $4k around willy-nilly??

and now, as an owner, i am "enthusiastic" about my purchase.

those two things aren't mutually exclusive. i had no idea if i'd like the Neo 430 when i bought it. and i made sure there was a 30-day return policy. luckily, it lived up to its high praise, and i have no problem endorsing the thing to others looking to drive the LCD-4.

kinda thought that was the whole point of headfi.org...

 

[wdh777]

How does the 430 compare to the gsx-mk2 with the lcd-4s?