[s4s4s4]

I honestly think Nordost and Cardas cables are overpriced given their build quality and what they offer. For example, the Heimdall 2 is made of OFC copper, which isn't bad, but you can get OCC copper cables at a much cheaper price. I know the quality of a cable is not just about the materials used, and I am by no means a cable guru, but a cable that expensive should definitely be using at least OCC copper, if not OCC silver. The build quality and the aesthetic of the cable is nothing special and quite ugly in my opinion.
I would recommend getting cables from makes such as Norne Audio. You can get a 5 feet Silvergarde S cable for about $500. That cable is made out of OCC silver, which is simply more conductive than OCC copper or anything else out there. Also, you have the option of adding exotic metal/wood splitters, and choosing the sleeving you want. In my opinion, the braiding of cables made by Trevor are infinitely more attractive than the Heimdall 2 or Cardas Clear cables.

I am finalising an order for a Norne Eternus (flagship), and will let you know how it goes.

Just because silver costs more than copper does make it sound better.
 
Oh and I sell Nordost BTW. But I do sell pure silver cables too.

 

[wasupdog]

  Has anyone tried a silver cable with the 4's?

 
no, but i used it on 2's and 3's and it was definitely worth the money. 

 

[etc6849]

If you don't want to start a debate, then why start it?
 
Yes the article is for heat treating carbon steel and talks about making steel stronger by freezing it after it is heated and prior to tempering.  It says nothing about conductivity and no copper doesn't have carbon content (steel does and it is added to give strength).  I would question this completely without seeing some IEEE papers detailing the affects on the grain structure of copper wire following cryo freezing.
 
Nevertheless I didn't say that there weren't any physical differences between various cables or that psychoacoustics can't trick you into hearing a difference (not to say a poorly made cable can't have issues, of course it can; everyone has had cheap cables fail and who wants that).
   
Quote:

I don't want to start a cable debate, but I have 4 different cables that have 4 different sound characteristics. I encourage you to just read the introduction of the following doc that outlines the effects of cryogenic treatment on metals. I can only hope that you would agree that a change in conductivity could conceivably result in a change of sound. I say keep treating, Audeze.. Though I've teetered at times, I always return to my blue cable. It also happens to be the only one that's cryo treated. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not..

http://www.ijstr.org/final-print/August2012/Comparative-Study-of-Cryo--Treated-Steel.pdf

BTW, I know the article relates to steel, but I don't think it's too far fetched to expect common effects in other metals.

 

[droopy1592]

Beat me to it

 

[nassq8]

  Has anyone tried a silver cable with the 4's?

I'm using Silver Widow 22.  Love its look and overall build. It is simply beautiful to look at. I found it (well may be psychologically) superior than the blue cable that comes with LCD-4;  it is more airy and brings more details. Objectively, well I have nothing to add here 

.  

 

[franzdom]

 
Just because silver costs more than copper does make it sound better.
 
Oh and I sell Nordost BTW. But I do sell pure silver cables too.

 
That seems like a ridiculous thing to say. This type of comment reflects poorly on the cable industry.
 
EDIT: Not that I don't disagree though, just seems like a ridiculous thing to say when you then say you sell pure silver cables.

 

[Eric510]

 
Just because silver costs more than copper does make it sound better.
 
Oh and I sell Nordost BTW. But I do sell pure silver cables too.

 

   
That seems like a ridiculous thing to say. This type of comment reflects poorly on the cable industry.
 
EDIT: Not that I don't disagree though, just seems like a ridiculous thing to say when you then say you sell pure silver cables.

I thought he actually typoed and meant "doesn't" instead of "does". 

But I'll let him defend himself when he wakes up this morning. 

 

[s4s4s4]

   

I thought he actually typoed and meant "doesn't" instead of "does". 

But I'll let him defend himself when he wakes up this morning. 

I did sorry a typo. I meant doesn't.

 

[franzdom]

I thought it should read "doesn't" but it didn't 

 

[Toolman]

Ha...I interpret it as a "doesn't" as well  

 

[johnzz4]

Closest I can find are some articles about Copper alloys with reduced resistance after cryo treating. It was from the "Society of Cryogenic Treatment" or something like that - not a for-profit company, but also not IEEE. Seems there aren't any reputable published studies dealing with this specifically, however there are for other metals. Based on that, I'm more inclined to believe there is SOME effect (how much is a different story). There's definitely nothing I could find saying there is no effect. Anyway, in my opinion the jury is still out.

You're welcome to the final word, but I don't have anything else to share on the topic. I need to grab my cables from the freezer now.

 

[MacedonianHero]

  Is the LCD-4 as difficult to power as the HE-6 or easier?

 
Much easier! The HE-6s really needed a speaker amp to really hit their stride. The LCD-4's do not need speaker amps, nor would I recommend them with these headphones.

 

[jlbrach]

I have never had the pleasure of listening to the HE-6's,I only know that the LCD-4 is the toughest HP to drive that I have ever used

 

[MacedonianHero]

  I have never had the pleasure of listening to the HE-6's,I only know that the LCD-4 is the toughest HP to drive that I have ever used

 
I owned them for quite a while several years ago. Great headphones, but dang, they needed a lot of powa!

 

[etc6849]

Cryogenic treatment is just marketing BS if talking about improving conductivity (e.g. reducing resistance).  Even if it does improve conductivity by one percent, why don't you think you could do the exact same thing by adding a few extra strands of copper and not risk cable damage by freezing?
 
Seriously, if anything, freezing cables is more likely to damage the jacket, and the yahoo's doing this probably don't have any idea what they are talking about or doing.  Since you can't find one academic paper on the subject (I applaud you for looking as most people would just blindly accept what they are told), maybe someone can provide me one PhD on this cable manufacturers staff that went to a major engineering college and studied material science and can give actual technical proof with a straight face and no marketing BS.
 
Another point, the silver and black cables that came with the LCD-4 aren't shielded.  Funny how they think cryogenics can make copper sound better, but shielding a cable isn't worth doing, makes no engineering sense!?!  I get that shielding usually isn't necessary, but what if someone lives very close to a radio tower in a condo that is up several stories?
 
Besides, don't you think if cryogenics did something magical to reduce resistance, billion dollar companies would be doing it to improve circuits too (you know the companies with actual material scientists on staff)?  You can't just blindly think that freezing stuff to 300 below is going to make it better; I'd argue it's more likely to mess up something.  I say blindly because these cable assemblers know nothing about the exact make up of the cable they are using; maybe 99.5% copper, but what's the other .5%?  I'm sure a real material scientist would want to know this before blindly freezing stuff; just saying.
 
Also, it is a fallacy to think just because an academic paper or engineering textbook doesn't say something is wrong means it could be right because a marketer or salesman told you so.  Textbooks and research papers aren't going to state every possible marketing gimmick/scam as there is no point.  Researchers and engineers already know that stuff is BS. 
 
Google psychoacoustics, because this is really what is going on here, and it is a real field of study at many reputable universities.  If you don't believe your ears can be fooled, google for psychoacoustic tests, because our human ears can easily be fooled. 
 
As an engineer, I trust the technology and knowledge we have and use to build circuits far more precise and far beyond what you can hear or even process as a human; yet, none of these circuits are cryogenically frozen...  big surprise  
 
Quote:

Closest I can find are some articles about Copper alloys with reduced resistance after cryo treating. It was from the "Society of Cryogenic Treatment" or something like that - not a for-profit company, but also not IEEE. Seems there aren't any reputable published studies dealing with this specifically, however there are for other metals. Based on that, I'm more inclined to believe there is SOME effect (how much is a different story). There's definitely nothing I could find saying there is no effect. Anyway, in my opinion the jury is still out.

You're welcome to the final word, but I don't have anything else to share on the topic. I need to grab my cables from the freezer now.