[silversurfer616]

As mentioned above, the LCD-4 will be a classic forever. I am not even interested in a possible LCD-5 as I am sure that it will only be a sidestep, not a real improvement on sound quality.
On a sidenote, I had two 4s at the same time for a while. Both the 200 ohm version with drivers from 2017 and 2018... and they sounded differently!
The 2017 drivers were darker with more body whereas the 2018 version was much 'lighter' in tonality, almost 'feeble' in terms of body and impact when compared directly with each other.
Also seemed to be more efficient as I normally never go beyond the 10 o'clock position on my amps, which was already far too loud for me with the 2018 drivers.
Needless to say that I kept the 2017 model but what really interests me is, are there really any LCD-4 out there that in fact sound identical or is there always a slight variance in sound?

 

[F208Frank]

The slight variance in sound mentioned of their headphones makes me wonder what causes this?

 

[llcook51]

Broadly speaking, headphone amps with a balanced output offer more power which the LCD-4 definitely likes. Any amp with both outputs will offer more power in balanced mode and probably have a slightly different sound signature. The V281 is a great example of this as someone else mentioned. I just got a Cavalli Liquid Platinum and that had 4x the power from its balanced out. The se out is only there for convenience in fact. But my ZMF Pendant amp drives the LCD-4 with aplomb from its 8-ohm tap and it is a single-ended topology. So one type of design is not inherently better than the other in terms of sound quality or even power output. The Pass Labs HPA-1 is supposed to be one of the best solid state amps period and it is se-only.
As for headphone cables, I believe that any one that has terminations for left and right sided headphone connectors and a TRS se-termination to go to the amp can be converted from single-ended to balanced fairly simply with a solder, a 4-pin xlr adapter and some basic rewiring. Other users feel free to jump in and correct me if I’m wrong!
Also worth knowing is that you can use an adapter to go from 4-pin xlr terminated headphone cable to a single-ended amp output, but adapters that claim to take a balanced output into a single-ended cable should be avoided at all costs because they can damge your amp. So I guess if you have to have one cable make it 4-pin xlr and you can always get an adapter if needed.

I agree that the LCD-4 loves power. I, also, have the Cavalli LP. It lets the LCD-4 sing with the balanced output.

 

[Zurakx]

I'm a big fan of the HPA4. It is a bit expensive but they won me over by first getting me to buy their DAC through praises off the forums. After buying the DAC and reading how they market (in a no nonsense way) I felt comfortable getting the HPA4 and call it a day.

(Big part of reason of me getting HPA4 was also because I wanted to make absolutely sure I did LCD4 justice)

The HPA4 feels very very premium and pairs well with many different headphones it seems. I was introduced to it at Can Jam NYC. I have mentally decided to stop looking around so much though and just enjoy the gear. I do not think I will upgrade anytime soon until my gear breaks down to justify the purchases I've made. I'm sure some of you are rolling your eyes at that unrealistic thought but for now that is my mindset, haha.

Which dac did you buy, the hgc version with dedicated amp? I've been curious if chaining the dac 3 to the HPA4 really makes much of a difference vs using the built in one. the dac 3 hgc drives my 4s without problem, never been past 1 oclock position.

 

[F208Frank]

Which dac did you buy, the hgc version with dedicated amp? I've been curious if chaining the dac 3 to the HPA4 really makes much of a difference vs using the built in one. the dac 3 hgc drives my 4s without problem, never been past 1 oclock position.

I at first bought the DAC3 HGC, sold it and got a regular DAC3 B (I have OCD and I do not like having two knobs) and then get the HPA4. I emailed Audeze and gave them specs of HGC and they said more amp is likely required. I upgraded to HPA4 to "play it safe" and I must say I have been happy thus far.

As for direct comparison I do not really have one because when I had the HGC, I had the 4z at the time. Since I decided to go to the 4 (and I do love them both) it was THEN I decided to pull trigger on HPA4.

What made me like the 4 more for myself was that sometimes I felt that the 4z was a bit bright at times as detailed by another user in this same thread. With that said some people prefer that, and also the bass on the 4z from memory seemed to be a tad more.

 

[johnzz4]

As mentioned above, the LCD-4 will be a classic forever. I am not even interested in a possible LCD-5 as I am sure that it will only be a sidestep, not a real improvement on sound quality.
On a sidenote, I had two 4s at the same time for a while. Both the 200 ohm version with drivers from 2017 and 2018... and they sounded differently!
The 2017 drivers were darker with more body whereas the 2018 version was much 'lighter' in tonality, almost 'feeble' in terms of body and impact when compared directly with each other.
Also seemed to be more efficient as I normally never go beyond the 10 o'clock position on my amps, which was already far too loud for me with the 2018 drivers.
Needless to say that I kept the 2017 model but what really interests me is, are there really any LCD-4 out there that in fact sound identical or is there always a slight variance in sound?

I just got my LCD4s back from repair and they do indeed sound different than when they left. There’s more bass, and the treble isn’t as peaky. Very pleased! The soundstage was fairly compressed when they first came back, but it expanded after a few days of playing them. Definitely sounds like there have been some refinements.

 

[F208Frank]

All this talk about how one pair sounds different than another pair and then talks of about how sending it in for repair and then it comes back sounding different really baffles me...

 

[Zurakx]

All this talk about how one pair sounds different than another pair and then talks of about how sending it in for repair and then it comes back sounding different really baffles me...

They use such thin membranes that I imagine tiny differences in thickness might have a detectable difference in sound signature.

 

[Zurakx]

I at first bought the DAC3 HGC, sold it and got a regular DAC3 B (I have OCD and I do not like having two knobs) and then get the HPA4. I emailed Audeze and gave them specs of HGC and they said more amp is likely required. I upgraded to HPA4 to "play it safe" and I must say I have been happy thus far.

As for direct comparison I do not really have one because when I had the HGC, I had the 4z at the time. Since I decided to go to the 4 (and I do love them both) it was THEN I decided to pull trigger on HPA4.

What made me like the 4 more for myself was that sometimes I felt that the 4z was a bit bright at times as detailed by another user in this same thread. With that said some people prefer that, and also the bass on the 4z from memory seemed to be a tad more.

Im pretty sensitive to highs. My dac 3 hgc and dt 1990 pro combo was murdering my ears. I learned what people meant by "listening fatigue". Ironic considering that I've worked in power plants my entire life. But I always wear my ear plugs

Moving over to the LCD 4 was a breath of fresh air. I was just curious how much difference such an expensive amp could make on hard to drive headphones like the LCD-4 compared to the built in amp of the HGC. Especially when you consider the HPA 4 costs more than the dac 3 hcg. It's a comparison i've just not been able to really find.

 

[johnzz4]

All this talk about how one pair sounds different than another pair and then talks of about how sending it in for repair and then it comes back sounding different really baffles me...

Why’s that? It’s a very difficult process to have consistency with such a thin membrane. I recall Audeze stating a couple of years back that they got much better with repeatability due to manufacturing process improvements. I’m simply suggesting that they’ve likely continued to improve and that the 2019 driver has a slightly different FR curve than my 2017 drivers - and I shared what I’m hearing in the post above. The variability in FR can be seen on the graphs that Audeze shares upon request. We’re not talking huge differences, but certainly audible ones. Less baffled?

 

[F208Frank]

I'm more baffled in the sense that a 4K retail headphone is not consistent across the board. Sure the membrane is thin and is hard to make and I get that, but for a TOTL 4K headphone to not be consistent across board is a bit odd no? Correct me if I am wrong but your logic is almost stating it is OK just because the process is difficult.

Yes, LCD4 is a great can, I love mine. But for people to willingly accept that it is OK for a headphone to have many slight variations "because the process is difficult" makes no sense to me.

 

[marcan]

Nothing bad about Audeze refined his drivers and put the last version for repair...

 

[jlbrach]

audeze's customer service is so good and so much better than all other HP makers that complaining about this stuff is silly....

 

[johnzz4]

I'm more baffled in the sense that a 4K retail headphone is not consistent across the board. Sure the membrane is thin and is hard to make and I get that, but for a TOTL 4K headphone to not be consistent across board is a bit odd no? Correct me if I am wrong but your logic is almost stating it is OK just because the process is difficult.

Yes, LCD4 is a great can, I love mine. But for people to willingly accept that it is OK for a headphone to have many slight variations "because the process is difficult" makes no sense to me.

I dont believe this is unique to Audeze... more a challenge of planar diaphragms in general (especially the ultra thin variety). Seems that electrostats might be prone as well, but I’m purely speculating on that. Cast metal and plastic parts are much simpler to reproduce within tighter tolerances. Grab a HD800 or a Utopia if some variability is particularly concerning.

 

[F208Frank]

I dont believe this is unique to Audeze... more a challenge of planar diaphragms in general (especially the ultra thin variety). Seems that electrostats might be prone as well, but I’m purely speculating on that. Cast metal and plastic parts are much simpler to reproduce within tighter tolerances. Grab a HD800 or a Utopia if some variability is particularly concerning.

Fair enough, at the end of the day LCD4 is a great can and I enjoy mine. Thanks for the break down.