Audeze LCD-4

[rgs9200m]

I'm having really good results with the LCD4 and the Lake People Niimbus amp. It adds more resolution and speed with no sense of fatigue at all. It's a great match to my ears.
There's lots of ease with this amp, and also lots of speed and excellent layering.

There is more control and character in things like percussion and just a more powerful and transparent sound overall.

It just makes the LCD4 sound more alive, but in a 100% musical and non-stressful way.

This amp is sweet and powerful, and holds a firm grip on the LCD4 and makes everything sound more real and vibrant.

 

[commtrd]

^^^What dac are you using?

 

[astrostar59]

A properly amped LCD4 should be up with the best in terms of sonics, like, really comparable even with HE1

I came to this conclusion as well last year when I was at Can-Jam in London. The LCD4 out of the GSX MK2 was closer to the HE1 than the 009 out of the BHSE.

I also agree and also with Trance_Gott, that the LCD4 is about musicality. I used to own the 009 and a nice Carbon amplifier and it was a detailed headphone presentation. The LCD4 and the V281 amplifier sounds closer to my big speakers. I read a similar observation from a review hearing the LCD3F out of the Viva Egoista. My goal now is to get my Aries Cerat amplifier set up and see what else the LCD4 can bring to bring to the table, I think it may have even more when driven by a powerful tube amp v a the solid state. This is my hunch having heard TOTL tube amps and SS amps in various speaker systems, A SET tube amp can do something magical that you can't get anywhere else (as long as it has been well designed).

 

[rgs9200m]

I use a Chord DAVE.

 

[RCBinTN]

I use a Chord DAVE.

Well, certainly beats my rig!
The Lake People Nimbus amp looks very interesting - is that a new design?
It doesn't look like any of their other equipment.

My rig is very simple but the equipment and SQ are decent.
DAC + Amp including (Wywires) cables ~$5,000 to drive either HD800 or LCD-4.

My recent listening has been with the HD800, which I dearly love.
The resolution and sound stage, you know.

Today I put the LCD-4 back on my head, and was blown away. It had been awhile ... too long!

I found that the resolution of the LCD-4 rivals the HD800 in the mids/treble.
Not an easy feat, for a planar.
The LCD-4 mid-bass and low bass clearly win, especially on uber-bass as provided by Marcus.

On The Bright Mississippi, very open and direct music, the LCD-4 hold their own vs. the HD800.
They just have an engaging/detailed sound ... the LCD-4 need to be lauded for their ability.

FWIW, I still think drums sound more "real" (read: analogue) on the HD800.
That, to me, is a difficult thing to accomplish by a DAC or a HP. Kudos to the GMB/A2 there.

Just catching up, my friends, I suspect y'all already know

The music - all 16/44.1 FLAC.


Happy Holidays to All -

 

[rgs9200m]

I know what you mean about drums on the HD800 (and other percussion). There is a real sense of the live and genuine sound of the exact kind of drum thwack it is with no overhang, sort of like a Stax 009. The reason I like the Niimbus so much is that it brings the LCD4 to that level almost. It just takes control of the LCD4 and just exposes more realism. It's pretty amazing to me.
(I wrote impressions of the Niimbus in one the 2 main threads for it. I was using the Susvara, but the same general impressions are equally applicable to the Audeze.)

 

[ajreynol]

Had a listen to the 4z in a quiet room at a show for about 10 minutes. From an iCan pro, iDSD pro with an A&K DAP.
It was very smooth, very similar tone to my LCD4 but I didn't get the sense of the 3D holographic multilayered sound stage I get on my system.
Maybe it was due to the iFi, hard to tell, but I couldn't live without that, its the best feature of the LCD4.

I just wanted to follow up on this because your thoughts stood out to and matched my experience as I am currently testing out a set of 4z's. You're right, the 3D/depth feel of sound is missing in the 4z's. All the elements of the LCD-4 are here...each note has the tone and body of the LCD-4. Everything is familiar and in its place. But instead of a 3D sound experience, it feels like a flat wall of sound around me. That sense of depth is just not here. Or, not that I can tell.

It has everything else the LCD-4 has, and surprisingly it has considerably stronger bass response (I have to EQ the low end of my LCD-4's considerably more to get the same skull-rattling experience when I'm in that mood) and brighter highs for those who want bright highs. I wonder if the lack of depth/3D has to do with the low impedance? I don't know. But I immediately noticed it when I got the 4z's a few days ago and thought maybe I was crazy. Thanks for confirming that I wasn't.

 

[mlxx]

I wonder if the lack of depth/3D has to do with the low impedance? I don't know. But I immediately noticed it when I got the 4z's a few days ago and thought maybe I was crazy. Thanks for confirming that I wasn't.

Yeah, I don't know how the sound stage is created but I need to have it or it is a no go. My theory is that it is due to the openness of the back.
It shoots sound out the back quite loud and the ear hears that sound too but from a further distance making it wider.
If I put my palms out about 10cm away from the backs, it collapses the sound stage a bit or if I lean back on a bed head compared to upright in a chair.
But it is not just that, I think precise imaging locates the sound around you giving the 3D enveloping effect.
I took the back covers off my LCD3 for a while when I had it and it got a lot wider but it wasn't enveloping.
The depth and height is probably created by the brain from the wider sound, precise imaging, and stereo effect.
I think a good dac and amp can enhance it but not create it where it doesn't exist.
HD800, Susvara, HE1000, Abyss, all said to have great sound stage but I couldn't hear anything that impressed me in that regard.
Someone from Audeze needs to tell us how its done, we won't tell anyone.

I didn't spend a lot of time with the 4z but I didn't hear extra bass or treble but I didn't have both there to compare.
The LCD4 has pretty ball breaking bass already, not sure I would want even more.
I prefer the new styling but it had to be obviously better sounding for me to upgrade.
If I never had a LCD4 already I would need to compare them both more thoroughly.
I have spent a year fine tuning things and really love the LCD4.
I heard 3 songs on the HE-1 but actually preferred 2 of the 3 songs better on the LCD4 so a TKO possibly for the LCD4.
However the 3rd song, Hotel California, was spectacular, the LCD4 struggles with this one for me, so a KO in the 3rd it was.

 

[RCBinTN]

However the 3rd song, Hotel California, was spectacular, the LCD4 struggles with this one for me, so a KO in the 3rd it was.

LOL another reason to not listen to the Eagles

The internal designs of the LCD-4 and LCD-4z must be completely different.
Impedance of 15 ohms vs. 200 ohms ... weight 450g vs. 600g.
I suspect the magnet arrays are different.

I had the LCD-X before the LCD-4. They were closer in impedance to the LCD-4z but never had the sound stage close to the LCD-4, with my gear.
That last comment may be a key.

My BHA-1 amp drives the HD800 (300 ohms) and LCD-4 (200 ohms) very well, but it would not drive the LCD-X nearly as well. I don't know why.

The key for me was hearing the LCD-X and LCD-4 (thanks to @pippen99) side-by-side on my gear.
The difference was huge --> purchase decision time!

 

[astrostar59]

Yeah, I don't know how the sound stage is created but I need to have it or it is a no go. My theory is that it is due to the openness of the back.
It shoots sound out the back quite loud and the ear hears that sound too but from a further distance making it wider.
If I put my palms out about 10cm away from the backs, it collapses the sound stage a bit or if I lean back on a bed head compared to upright in a chair.
But it is not just that, I think precise imaging locates the sound around you giving the 3D enveloping effect.
I took the back covers off my LCD3 for a while when I had it and it got a lot wider but it wasn't enveloping.
The depth and height is probably created by the brain from the wider sound, precise imaging, and stereo effect.
I think a good dac and amp can enhance it but not create it where it doesn't exist.
HD800, Susvara, HE1000, Abyss, all said to have great sound stage but I couldn't hear anything that impressed me in that regard.
Someone from Audeze needs to tell us how its done, we won't tell anyone.

I didn't spend a lot of time with the 4z but I didn't hear extra bass or treble but I didn't have both there to compare.
The LCD4 has pretty ball breaking bass already, not sure I would want even more.
I prefer the new styling but it had to be obviously better sounding for me to upgrade.
If I never had a LCD4 already I would need to compare them both more thoroughly.
I have spent a year fine tuning things and really love the LCD4.
I heard 3 songs on the HE-1 but actually preferred 2 of the 3 songs better on the LCD4 so a TKO possibly for the LCD4.
However the 3rd song, Hotel California, was spectacular, the LCD4 struggles with this one for me, so a KO in the 3rd it was.

Agree, the soundstage on the LCD4 is superb, bigger than the 009 in depth, width seems about the same. Yes, it must be the structure and magnets? Also a reason why the LCD4 is inefficient relatively, maybe getting the LCD4z more efficient meant loosing something in the construction of the drivers?

MIXX, did you have the high res version of Hotel California? It sounds a lot better than the 44.1 version, bigger dynamics and more 3D.

I am gaging to try the LCD4 on my incoming tube amplifier, I have high hopes for it, see if it kicks the V281's butt....

 

[RCBinTN]

Agree. Why would they re-design the LCD-X as the LCD-4z with a $4,000 price tag?

 

[mlxx]

Agree, the soundstage on the LCD4 is superb, bigger than the 009 in depth, width seems about the same. Yes, it must be the structure and magnets? Also a reason why the LCD4 is inefficient relatively, maybe getting the LCD4z more efficient meant loosing something in the construction of the drivers?

MIXX, did you have the high res version of Hotel California? It sounds a lot better than the 44.1 version, bigger dynamics and more 3D.

I have tried quite a few versions, the one I like best is the Studio Albums HDTracks 192k version.
It is not something I listen to but I use it as a test track as almost everything I demo has it.
So I can compare how it sounded on different systems more directly.
Normally it sounds comparable to the LCD4 or slightly better like on the Utopia.
The HE-1 played it really well like no other, I would have walked away thinking the HE-1 wasn't that great otherwise.
Mainly his voice was very natural and actually sounded good for a change.
Also the fizziness, bubbling, sizzling, I heard didn't affect this track, it was clean and full bodied.
It was a track from Tidal played on the HE-1, I don't use Tidal but I will have to try it one day.

https://www.audeze.com/products/lcd-collection/lcd-4z
Regarding the 4z, seems the magnets are same/similar and it may have an even thinner diaphragm too.
Probably has lots of other physical differences though. It can't be easy to get this sound stage magic happening, it is very rare.

 

[commtrd]

Darn you guys. Will prolly end up costing me a LCD4 someday. But will need to update the upstream stuff first. Current rig won't do LCD4 justice.

 

[astrostar59]

I have tried quite a few versions, the one I like best is the Studio Albums HDTracks 192k version.
It is not something I listen to but I use it as a test track as almost everything I demo has it.
.

I would ensure the Tidal MQA version is the same as your HD Tracks version. It may not be and that may confuse your testing. Also the DAC used, I heard the HE1 with a big T+A CDP costing 20K as the source, which would probably be better than the inbuilt DAC in the HE1 unit.

But going back to the HE1 sound, I felt it was the best overall presentation I had heard on any headphone at that point.
It was the thing that sent me over to the LCD4 as I heard more similarities between it and the HE1 than my then 009 and Carbon amplifier combo. I use the V281 amp and since I upgraded my DAC to the Aries Cerat Kassandra, I have a hunch I am really close to the HE1 as regards it's strengths of body, rich mids and realism.

I will report back when my big tube amplifier arrives, see it that pushes things even further. It is the timbre and smoothness of tube amplification I am a fan of, and hope this drives the LCD4 to new heights of realism!

 

[Dobrescu George]

I took a few photos of LCD-MX4 during my review of Feliks Echo