Audeze LCD-4
Aug 2, 2018 at 7:47 AM Post #6,856 of 12,031
Well, the reason I asked is because I find this kind of perception heavily influenced by bias so I was hoping for a somewhat controlled test. I spent time with another head-fier A/Bing the LCD2 on a Magni 2 vs the LCD3 on a Lyr 2... at one point we both became fully convinced that the echo of a particular drum/bang was present on the latter combo and not at all on the LCD2... and after going back to the 2 specifically for that one detail we were both dumbfounded to find it actually was every bit as present. But if I hadn't continued A/Bing repeatedly I would never have known.

And although I love the crisp crystal clearness of the HD800 making it easier to pinpoint details (it's not just the brightness, though that helps too), I can't say it picks up specific details that the LCD3 doesn't. The LCD3 just puts the more enjoyable parts of the music up front instead of the details, making you have to look harder to see them. But once again I can only imagine that without A/Bing the same passages repeatedly between the two and listening for what I hear on one headphone on the other, I'd say I thought the HD800 just had those details while the LCD3 didn't.

Yeah that may very well be the case. In which case going off memory isn't going to be very helpful. I even sold all of my non electrostatic amps.

The Stax definitely makes many details more obvious and is far more transparent. I did A/B test it briefly with the ZMF Ori which didn't sound less detailed than the LCD-4 really (minor difference there), and that's how I became convinced that the SR-009 was revealing so many new sounds and details.
 
Aug 2, 2018 at 7:56 AM Post #6,857 of 12,031
iaRlU4w.jpg
Violectric V281 review


(Apologies, not my photo, I will take some in a day or so.)

This amp landed today. I was using the little Metrum Aurix to this point on both my LCD2-C and LCD4s. On the LCD2-C I had the Aurix set to no gain (unity) to more or less it should be straight through albeit with an impedance 'fixer' down to 2 ohms via the Lundhai transformer it uses for that. So dead simple signal path.

No test with the LCD4 yet, as I am on my second system without them at the moment. Also using the standard LCD2 cable which is SE 6.3mm plug.

Right away I can hear more detail and transparency. The soundstage has also expanded, much more 3D and wider, higher and deeper. The instruments are more separated v the Aurix, it is less confused when things get busy. The bass has more authority, is more tuneful and textured. Vocals are smooth and realistic, very detailed, on female vocals never sharp or thin / edgy especially.

Mids are still classic Audeze, but this time more detail and the layering is superb, placement is very easy to work out in the head stage. It is so unfettled, so on the job, seems to be coasting along. Things are not slow or muddy, lack of textures or details, the amount of information is incredible, and I can pick things out that were lost before, masked by other instruments. The best way to describe the mids is to view an old painting, and try to see what is going on, then to see it cleaned and there, it is all there to see. But it is all there without a penalty, harshness or lack of realism in doing it.

The control over the drivers is one olf the most remarkable aspects to this amp, it feels like they are hard wired to the output, really kicking their butt here. The LCD2-C is no slough, but it does sound like it has woken up from it's slumber, like the drivers are going to fly out the frames. In fact it feels like the LCD2-C has just caught up my my LCD4 out of the Aurix, maybe surpassed it. The other odd thing is the transparency has increased, but the treble level seems only marginally higher than the Aurix. It is as though the detail level of what is going on is greater, without an attention of it. Hard to describe.

Track swopping, I notice a bigger difference between music styles and the quality of the recording, acoustics of the venue / studio ect. I leads me to believe the V281 is not colouring or 'beautifying' the incoming signal, really only supercharging it and flinging it out at the headphone, take that you sucker! Ha Ha. This is all good stuff.

Wow, I like this thing A LOT.

The little Metrum Aurix is still a great little amp and bear in mind it's then price at about 650 euros. It's soundstage is more intimate, everything is closer together, and it may be struggling a bit to drive my LCD2 and the LCD4s. On the LCD4 in my other system, I have a 10v line out from my DAC, which does wake up the Aurix a bit more to then drive the LCD4s, but.....

It is only the first few hours, and already the sound is changing, the amp heating up. It sounds better even after 3 hours switch on than cold. I think it will have some burn in, this stuff nearly always does, all those capacitors. My DAC took a month of being on 24/7.

IMG_3950.JPG

Kassandra DAC with my LCD4s.

Well, I learnt over the last few years a better DAC makes a HUGE difference to the final sound, both on my speaker rig and HPs. Bits are not bits. Now I can hear how a better HP amp in the chain has an impact too. I still put the source as tantamount, first to building a good system, the first thing to resolve.

Once the source is correct, great balance has been achieved, then the HP and amp choice follows IMO. I used to have various artificial or brittle sounding DACs that then had to be 'controlled' up stream. That meant favouring a coloured sounding HP or amp. So maybe by chance I end up getting a decent HP amp last, who knows. It seems to be the icing on the cake, completing a nicely balanced system.

Anyway, my thoughts, will shut up now and listen to more music.

Very very very happy with this V281. If you are after a different amp I would look at this for sure. Especially on the LCD HPs which are already warm and fairly forgiving. I considered a tube amp around the same budget, but was not sure it would add too much to the sound, get too coloured? I wanted to wake things up in the dynamics, really control the LCD4 - Max it Out.

My DAC is a tube based unit already. I do think it is good to have tubes somewhere in the chain, either in the DAC or the amp, and have used that method for 20 years or more.

So more to come I think. And running it balanced next week when the Draug silver cable lands - to be continued..... big smile on my face.:ksc75smile:
 
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Aug 2, 2018 at 8:58 AM Post #6,858 of 12,031
Your list of headphones is really something. How do you feel the Susvara compares to all these other planar flagships? Including the HE1000/HE1000 v2 if possible.
I haven't got the Susvara's in hand yet. I sold my LCD-4's and HE 1000 V2's to get them. I'm very familiar with the latter two headphones sound. So I should be able to comment on your question. I'm just hoping the Susvara's are a worthy replacement for them. :wink:
 
Aug 2, 2018 at 8:59 AM Post #6,859 of 12,031
Can I chime in? YMMV and respect to Ramnetin. I had the Stax 009 and a top KGSShv Carbon build. Best Power supply board, great parts quality etc, top chassis construction. Ran it off the P10 for pure clean power, top interconnects top DAC. I had it for 2 years. At the same time I had the 2015 007 MK2s which were very close to the MK1, better than the older MK2s which I also had before that.

My opinion on the 009 is it is a stethoscope to the music, it reveals the micro details especially in the treble, and throws it forward. It is addictive, and I got hooked on it for some time. I got used to it, it seemed natural and enjoyable. I wasn't 'missing' anything. Most music sounded very good, some sounded superb, some not so good though. Female vocals and piano was a low point, it don't work as well IMO. Anyway, bumbling along regardless, though I noted I was using them less than I used to, more my horn speakers.

Fast forward 2 years, I was away from home for 3 months, so didn't use it during this period. I went to Can-Jam London last year. Listened to the LCD4 out of the GSX MK2 and Halo DAC. My DAC was better, but damb, that sounded nice I thought, muscular, solid, great midrange where most of music happens. Then I heard the HE-1. Wow, I liked that a lot, yeah 55K but it was so 'right' to my ears. Back to the LCD4 stand for another listen, and I thought it was pretty close to my 'new target' the HE-1s. Maybe 85% there in signature?

I pondered what had happened on the train back home. I then fired up my Stax system, and was surprised. To me it sounded 'off' not natural anymore. it was mega plankton of course, but where is the emotion, the body in the mids, the realism. This was 'my moment' was when I decided to go after the LCD4.

This is a totally personal thing, but detail is not just detail. To me it has to be presented in a way to my ears, that replicates a live concert, a rock concert or a studio session. I had got bored of the plankton thing.

Onto the LCD4, is it perfect? I am not sure. It is damb close to my ideal experience. All the detail is still there, but it is there in the correct mix to me. It is all very natural, not an all out assault on my ears. treble forward presentation then masks the midrange, my ears got overloaded, I couldn't relax or chill out, feel the emotion in the music. The 009 was like a doctors examination of the music, after the event. Not listening in front of the music. it is hard to describe.

t have had 30 years of Stax models, a tipped up balance of the Lambda range to hear the speed of stats instead, sacrifice the body and foundation to accept the floaty music thing stats are so good at. The 009 is much better than that, closer to my ideal but obviously, just not far enough. Possibly fed by the T2 is can be? I heard it out of the Malvalve and it sounded superb, just like my LCD4 in fact! But is that the 009 powered correctly, or is colouring the HP instead. I have no idea, and don't want to send 14K finding that out.

That is my position on the subject. It is really up to personal tastes and how we feel about it, how realistic it sounds to us. The Carbon and 009 did scale hugely with a top R-2R DAC feeding it, but even that didn't seem to do it for me. Sorry, I tried.....
 
Aug 2, 2018 at 11:40 AM Post #6,860 of 12,031
Yo Ramnetin thanks for the like. I don't want to step on anyone.

I got roasted on HC with posting personal experiences / thoughts, even though that is what forums are about right?

It is better on here albeit with some adverts and some dealers flying about. But plenty of owners with decent gear and who are honest and respectful, polite. Who share their experiences.

On HC, some on that forum are knowledgeable, many are just angry and put downers, name callers and hypocrites.... many have narrow viewpoints and low fi sources yet say they know it all. For example there is a big slag off thread on the DAVE DAC on HC, but nobody on that thread I can see has actually heard it. Need I say more, but just one example.
 
Aug 2, 2018 at 11:47 AM Post #6,861 of 12,031
Yeah it's silly to get heated over such differences in headphone preference. At the end of the day we all have different ears and sonic preferences, and it doesn't come as a surprise to me at all that the LCD-4 could be someone's favorite. Not that I'm saying all of this is subjective, but preference certainly is.
 
Aug 2, 2018 at 4:59 PM Post #6,862 of 12,031
as a longtime owner of the LCD-4 and big fan (I have bought and sold and bought them)...I do believe the Abyss Phi to be the best HP available now along with the susvara but both need top notch source and amp to truly shine!
 
Aug 2, 2018 at 5:23 PM Post #6,863 of 12,031
I haven't got the Susvara's in hand yet. I sold my LCD-4's and HE 1000 V2's to get them. I'm very familiar with the latter two headphones sound. So I should be able to comment on your question. I'm just hoping the Susvara's are a worthy replacement for them. :wink:

I sold my LCD-4 and Utopia to purchase the Susvara.....so far it is a win as far as i am concerned...with proper amping the susvara plays in the league that only the Phi does IMHO...i put forth that i have never had the pleasure of listening to the Stax gear other than a moment or 2 at a show which is a total waste of time...first time i listened to susvara at a show i was unimpressed,it wasnt amped up properly and had a less than stellar source which really surprised me....
 
Aug 2, 2018 at 6:13 PM Post #6,864 of 12,031
as a longtime owner of the LCD-4 and big fan (I have bought and sold and bought them)...I do believe the Abyss Phi to be the best HP available now along with the susvara but both need top notch source and amp to truly shine!

...with proper amping the susvara plays in the league that only the Phi does IMHO...i put forth that i have never had the pleasure of listening to the Stax gear other than a moment or 2 at a show...

Then I'm afraid you can't know what the best is! Subjectivity aside a non electrostat can never be as transparent or revealing as a properly amped SR-009 or SR-009S. Of course those two attributes don't mean everything but I have to point it out.
 
Aug 2, 2018 at 6:16 PM Post #6,865 of 12,031
that is why i said IMHO!
 
Aug 2, 2018 at 6:47 PM Post #6,866 of 12,031
I sold my LCD-4 and Utopia to purchase the Susvara.....so far it is a win as far as i am concerned...with proper amping the susvara plays in the league that only the Phi does IMHO...i put forth that i have never had the pleasure of listening to the Stax gear other than a moment or 2 at a show which is a total waste of time...first time i listened to susvara at a show i was unimpressed,it wasnt amped up properly and had a less than stellar source which really surprised me....
Those are exactly the comments I am looking for. The less I can regret giving up my LCD-4's the better. The LCD-4's did so many things right IMO. It is truly an amazing headphone and worthy of all the praise it is getting.
 
Aug 3, 2018 at 11:19 AM Post #6,867 of 12,031
I sold my LCD-4 and Utopia to purchase the Susvara.....so far it is a win as far as i am concerned...with proper amping the susvara plays in the league that only the Phi does IMHO...i put forth that i have never had the pleasure of listening to the Stax gear other than a moment or 2 at a show which is a total waste of time...first time i listened to susvara at a show i was unimpressed,it wasnt amped up properly and had a less than stellar source which really surprised me....

I heard the Susvara at Can-Jam and it was nice, but didn't blow my socks off. It was off this amp:
Auris-Headonia-1-of-4.jpg

But I had no control over the tracks and was distracted by the HE-1 and the LCD4 off the GSX. The Susvara was beyond my budget, and I didn't dig the HE1000 build quality.
Maybe should have paid more attention to it? The Abyss is impossible to ignore, and in the times I have heard it, it impresses me, more my cup of tea I think. But maybe the Abyss would be best on a tube amp?
Or the V281, would like to hear that.....
 
Aug 3, 2018 at 11:54 AM Post #6,868 of 12,031
The Lazuli Ref cable is a big step up in sonics for my LCD4; more balanced, refined, etc...
It just makes everything sound right. (Or at least much more right.)
Worth every penny IMHO. It's such a great cable. I'd even call it a breakthrough cable.
 
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Aug 3, 2018 at 11:54 AM Post #6,869 of 12,031
I heard the Susvara at Can-Jam and it was nice, but didn't blow my socks off. It was off this amp:

But I had no control over the tracks and was distracted by the HE-1 and the LCD4 off the GSX. The Susvara was beyond my budget, and I didn't dig the HE1000 build quality.
Maybe should have paid more attention to it? The Abyss is impossible to ignore, and in the times I have heard it, it impresses me, more my cup of tea I think. But maybe the Abyss would be best on a tube amp?
Or the V281, would like to hear that.....
I’m sold on the Abyss as well. I thought it took the sound of the LCD-4 and took it a step further to my ears.
 
Aug 3, 2018 at 12:33 PM Post #6,870 of 12,031
i loved the LCD-4...still do....i have experimented with a few amps using the susvara and found it needs a real good amp....am currently using a violectric 281 in balanced mode and damn this thing is powerful...i actually use the pre gain functions which i really like to find the right levels of output ...the 281 is so powerful in balanced mode that i am using it at -12...great amp which really makes the susvara shine...as it did the LCD-4
 

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