[ufospls2]

People are saying that full size desktop amps aren't enough to power the LCD-4 but u say a geek will?

Yup, thats what I'm saying. I'm using it right now, and it is just fine. Audeze says the optimal power requirement for the LCD-4 is 1-4w. Is the Geek Out the BEST option? No, of course not. But it is good. Just because people say something, doesn't mean its true. You could blow your ears off with the Geek Out V2 and LCD-4. And now people will scream "But volume isn't everything!! It is too cheap to SOUND good!!!" I agree, volume isn't everything, the Geek Out SOUNDS good as well. It is an impressive bit of kit sound wise, build quality wise...not so much. Inb4 mad people that spent 5k on an amp and think anything less is a waste of time. 

 

[mulder01]

Can I just point out something - if you type in the impedance and sensitivity of the LCD-4 into a headphone power calculator you get this:
 

 
A VERY LOUD LCD-4 has probably got about 0.063 watts pumping into it (about one fifteenth of one watt) - really not that hard to drive.  Maybe people don't like the particular sound of a certain amp and mistakenly blame the power output, but the power output is not to blame.

 

[goldendarko]

Then why can't desktop amps power it sufficiently. Such divergent information on this thread. Some units fail, some are fine. Some expensive amps don't have what it takes but the GEEK does! Lol get it together. Too hard to make sense of this damn headphone, it's a damn diva.

 

[Hifi59]

Then why can't desktop amps power it sufficiently. Such divergent information on this thread. Some units fail, some are fine. Some expensive amps don't have what it takes but the GEEK does! Lol get it together. Too hard to make sense of this damn headphone, it's a damn diva.

It's interesting what you say. For example, Burson audio's new amps required a total redesign of their power supply in order to put out its 8watts into 16 ohms while simultaneously keeping the casing the same size. This is plenty of power to drive my LCD-4s but at the same time, my portable amps,Centrance M8 and Fiio E-12 DIY , also provide what "seems" to be as much power even though they don't have that kind of power. True, the Bursons use discreet transistors while the portables use IC chips. I always thought it took large power supply capacitors, large power supplies and powerful transistors to get ample power but there are many portables that pull it off with just IC chips, small capacitors and rechargeable batteries. Their sound quality and bass slam may not be the equal of the desktop amps, but they're pretty close!

 

[goldendarko]

I haven't heard the LCD-4 yet so I can't say anything about it but from reading this forum it's either the second coming of a pile of junk. So many people have stated it takes a serious amp to power it properly yet others say it sounds great out of a mobile device or something like the geek. It's so hard to make sense of these impressions when they're all over the board. Of course not everyone may know what they are talking about which could be leading to this confusion also. So hard to say without being able to hear it for oneself.

 

[mulder01]

Then why can't desktop amps power it sufficiently. Such divergent information on this thread. Some units fail, some are fine. Some expensive amps don't have what it takes but the GEEK does! Lol get it together. Too hard to make sense of this damn headphone, it's a damn diva.

 
Desktop amps can power it sufficiently - if you want to know the actual figures on headphone power requirements, google 'headphone power calculator' like I just did and type in the impedance and sensitivity and that will give you the facts.  
 
When people say that an amp "can't power" a headphone, maybe they are saying that they feel like it doesn't do it justice, not that it is actually running out of juice to get it to the required volume.
 
Or maybe they are just looking a price tags and making that assumption, maybe there is an issue with the other gear in the chain, maybe they are just listening to a salesman that wants them to buy an expensive amp, maybe the synergy with the amp they tried just isn't there, who knows.  Keep in mind this is the internet and anyone can say anything they want. 
 
I haven't been following this thread the whole time but AFAIK the original LCD-4 had a high fail rate and got recalled but the new 200 ohm version seems to be ok so far.

 

[mulder01]

It's interesting what you say. For example, Burson audio's new amps required a total redesign of their power supply in order to put out its 8watts into 16 ohms while simultaneously keeping the casing the same size. This is plenty of power to drive my LCD-4s but at the same time, my portable amps,Centrance M8 and Fiio E-12 DIY , also provide what "seems" to be as much power even though they don't have that kind of power. True, the Bursons use discreet transistors while the portables use IC chips. I always thought it took large power supply capacitors, large power supplies and powerful transistors to get ample power but there are many portables that pull it off with just IC chips, small capacitors and rechargeable batteries. Their sound quality and bass slam may not be the equal of the desktop amps, but they're pretty close!

 
You can bet your left nut that you're not pumping 8w into your LCD-4.  It would probably be on fire.

 

[Hifi59]

You can bet your left nut that you're not pumping 8w into your LCD-4.  It would probably be on fire.

No, it's not. That's its 16 ohm output. At 200ohms, it's just over .6 watts which is plenty to power them up sufficiently.

 

[up late]

I haven't heard the LCD-4 yet so I can't say anything about it but from reading this forum it's either the second coming of a pile of junk. So many people have stated it takes a serious amp to power it properly yet others say it sounds great out of a mobile device or something like the geek. It's so hard to make sense of these impressions when they're all over the board. Of course not everyone may know what they are talking about which could be leading to this confusion also. So hard to say without being able to hear it for oneself.

looks like a compelling reason to try it for yourself and form your own opinion right?

 

[groovyd]

I think part of the confusion around power and resulting quality is being exploited here by calculating current and voltage requirements for average SPLs.  I mean average SPL does not measure quality of sound at all and power is exponential in that say 100w does not translate into 100 times the loudness of 1w.  An amp that provides for an average SPL of power at say 1w says absolutely nothing about the true demands of the dynamics of music being played.  This is an average weighted over all frequencies over time.  Certain dynamics of music can quite easily pull 10-100x the power of the average but for only a very brief moment and it is in that moment when it matters most.  The quality of an amp has more to do with it's dynamic headroom then it does it's rms or max power output.  How long can that rated power be sustained and how stable are the voltage and currents during that time?

 

[goldendarko]

looks like a compelling reason to try it for yourself and form your own opinion right?

Sure would you like to lend me one? My nearest dealer is over 12 hours away.

 

[up late]

i think that i'm much further away from you than your dealer is and i don't own one to lend you anyways. ain't life a b***h? how did you manage to try the other cans that you own or did you buy "blind"?

 

[mulder01]

  I think part of the confusion around power and resulting quality is being exploited here by calculating current and voltage requirements for average SPLs.  I mean average SPL does not measure quality of sound at all and power is exponential in that say 100w does not translate into 100 times the loudness of 1w.  An amp that provides for an average SPL of power at say 1w says absolutely nothing about the true demands of the dynamics of music being played.  This is an average weighted over all frequencies over time.  Certain dynamics of music can quite easily pull 10-100x the power of the average but for only a very brief moment and it is in that moment when it matters most.  The quality of an amp has more to do with it's dynamic headroom then it does it's rms or max power output.  How long can that rated power be sustained and how stable are the voltage and currents during that time?

 
I'm not saying that you only require an amp with a max output of 0.1w max, but with the dynamic range compression on most music today, I think even if you multiplied the power usage I quoted earlier (0.063w) by 10, (0.63w) you should have the peaks fairly covered.  I think you'd struggle to find any music that has dynamic peaks 100x the RMS value...
 
I suppose I was just trying to say that it was totally believable that a little geek out could power the LCD-4 just fine, and that if people were saying that some big desktop amps weren't powerful enough then maybe do your own research about that.
 
As far as how much power is needed in any situation, anyone who is interested can read this article. http://www.stereophile.com/content/amplifier-power-how-much-enough#ikb4zE0aJ22wVDj4.97  It's a very old artice and experts still argue about it today.  The article is fairly inconclusive so it really depends who you ask.  Was just trying to bring something objective to the argument because so many people are giving such conflicting information it's hard to know what's what.

 

[goldendarko]

i think that i'm much further away from you than your dealer is and i don't own one to lend you anyways. ain't life a b***h? how did you manage to try the other cans that you own or did you buy "blind"?

Bought blind but impressions were much more consistent with my other purchases. In essence I knew what I was getting.

This headphones impressions can be summed up as such so far it seems like:
It breaks!
It stopped breaking!
It's amazing!
It's ok!
It's hard to drive!
It's easy to drive!

I get everyone has their own impressions and opinions of it but it's hard to get an idea of how this headphone performs by reading this thread is all I'm saying.

 

[mulder01]

... it's hard to get an idea of how this headphone performs by reading this thread is all I'm saying.

 
lol WHAT
just get an abyss instead