Audeze CRBN 2

[rthomas]

Dear Audeze,

I’ve owned the Carbon and the LCD5. I currently own the LCD4 and absolutely love it.

Please give us an actual frequency response comparison from an industry standard rig instead of that little cartoon graph that looks like it’s from an Apple keynote.

Or send the Carbon 1 and 2 to Resolve for a full review plus measurements.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

Sankar said his favourite amp with the CRBN 2 is the Mjolnir Audio Carbon in a recent live Q&A -

I am torn between the Eksonic Aeras and Carbon CC!

 

[Svperstar]

I have a +5 db bass boost on my CRBN right now dialed in on the RME. I hope the other improvements are audible and not just something that can be accomplished with a basic bass EQ or "bass boost" button on some hardware

 

[M700LTR]

Audeze is fantastic for doing this but … doesn’t that mean people could just buy a brand new CRBN 1, and just send it back for a CRBN 2 , to save $500?

I expect the resale value of the CRBNs to suddenly jump…

There was also a juicy CRBN black Friday deal which was $2600 - 3000 IIRC not too long ago.

 

[Svperstar]

I am torn between the Eksonic Aeras and Carbon CC!

I don't have a link handy but I remember reading someone was emailing back and forth with Mjolnir and he told them there is no audible difference between the basic Mjolnir Carbon and the CC, it just has more expensive component like all silver wire. Just something to think about if you want to save a couple of grand. I was very close to going all the way to a full Carbon CC myself. I don't regret ust going for a standard Carbon from a different manufacturer

 

[Chefguru]

I don't have a link handy but I remember reading someone was emailing back and forth with Mjolnir and he told them there is no audible difference between the basic Mjolnir Carbon and the CC, it just has more expensive component like all silver wire. Just something to think about if you want to save a couple of grand. I was very close to going all the way to a full Carbon CC myself. I don't regret not just going for a standard Carbon from a different manufacturer

One perk of the CC over the normal carbon is Mjolnir makes it with 2 jacks, so if you want one to be a he90 or NB jack there is a benefit. Additionally, there have been reported sonic differences between the two - small, but notable in a blind test.

I personally went standard carbon but there is some merit in going CC

 

[oneguy]

There was also a juicy CRBN black Friday deal which was $2600 - 3000 IIRC not too long ago.

I can’t recall a Black Friday email (not saying there wasn’t but just doesn’t jog my memory) but I do recall their 2 or maybe 3 trade-in emails they sent out.



To me, that was further proof that there was a lot of padding in their official price. Big turnoff.

"Why is it so expensive? Because it sounds so good.”

Been getting that vibe from Audeze for a while now when it comes to their flagship pricing approach.

 

[rthomas]

I can’t recall a Black Friday email (not saying there wasn’t but just doesn’t jog my memory) but I do recall their 2 or may 3 trade in emails they sent out.



To me, that was further proof that there was a lot of padding in their official price. Big turnoff.

"Why it's so expensive? Because it sounds so good.”

Been getting that vibe from Audeze for a while now when it comes to their flagship pricing approach.

Can you tell me a TOTL headphone without a lot of padding in the price?

The Immanis is almost $10k , the Susvara is $8k and they’re both made in countries with substantially lower labour costs.

Audeze has seen that $6k is acceptable to headfiers ( thanks Hifiman) so they want a piece of the pie.

Headfi will happily keep gushing about these products claiming they’re better and better ( even if they’re not) .

In 10 years $5k will be mid-fi and $10k will be the entry point to summit fi.

And we’ll have the usual suspects claiming that the $10k headphone is more detailed than the $5k headphone and how a $15k amp is a requirement to “maximize performance “.

In other domains like mobile phone, computers and cars we have powerful, influential reviewers who will ridicule products that aren’t a good value. In our world we mostly have marketers pretending to be reviewers.

 

[oneguy]

Can you tell me a TOTL headphone without a lot of padding in the price?

Can’t say that there is one for certain. $1500 for a driver update and a few cosmetic updates to visually differentiate it from the previous model is just a highlight of this from Audeze.

The Immanis is almost $10k , the Susvara is $8k and they’re both made in countries with substantially lower labour costs.

Immanis pushing 10k and the Susvara at 8k (the previous quote referenced was actually in reference to an interview about the Susvara) are also symptoms.

I don’t think the difference in labor costs are that big of a factor with something this small to assemble but I could be wrong.

Headfi will happily keep gushing about these products claiming they’re better and better ( even if they’re not) .

In 10 years $5k will be mid-fi and $10k will be the entry point to summit fi.

And we’ll have the usual suspects claiming that the $10k headphone is more detailed than the $5k headphone and how a $15k amp is a requirement to “maximize performance “.

 

[Richy Hughes]

If they didn't offer any loyalty programs, they'd be accused of not respecting their existing customers. When they do, it's used to accuse them of massively padding their prices.

These are not mass-market items, so pricing - somewhere and somehow - needs to cover R+D costs as well as future customer support which at this level of product, and with such generally discerning customers, is going to be high. And also be profitable enough to put money into developing new lines.

So if they choose to make introductory offers to their existing customers, who hopefully will help build some excitement around the product and thereby generate sales at the regular price, that just seems like a good strategy to me.

I don't know and neither do I care for whatever numbers are on a balance sheet behind closed doors. What I care about is that both my Audeze sets are worth what I paid for them.

 

[oneguy]

Assuming that reply was at least partially directed at my post, what I attached as a picture was a trade-in offer of any MSRP $1499 headphone for $2k off. So ostensibly one could pick up an SR-L700 on the used market for $700 and trade that in under that program and only spend $3200 total for a new one.

Not that I’m not grateful when companies do this, I think it’s awesome. But it does kinda raise the question about the initial price offerings.

 

[DougD]

Headphones are like any other discretionary consumer product:
* sellers are free to set any price they feel is appropriate given their perception of value, and
* buyers are free to buy or not buy at those prices, given their perception of value.

Reviews and published comments by early adapters provide info to consumers to inform their purchasing decisions.

Sales volumes provide feedback to manufacturers about the value-received perception of the market.

Profits drive new models, technical innovation, and new entrants.

There's a healthy used market for those wanting to upgrade or experiment without paying the premium for new-release TOTL models.

Buy at prices or value-points that are comfortable to you and within your budget.

</recap_of_Econ_101>

 

[padam]

I do not think retail pricing is the most defining aspect. People can decide to purchase, ignore, wait for the right opportunity, whatever.
Companies have margins, business models, let's say differing ways of treating customers, and they are usually sticking to them - like older CRBN drivers.
(Seems to be behind them now, but they could have dealt with it differently.) Customers have the ability to learn and adjust.

One can say (after testing in a usually noisy environment for a short amount of time) "wow, so amazed guys, pre-order is in right away." Or simply just listen, and take notes. Unfortunately, this is impossible for a lot of people. (In my country, simply no access to most things, other than a blind order.) In that case, one has to develop sort a "feel" as to which opinons to rely on (mostly by absorbing as much own knowledge as possible).
So basically, use the community. Yeah, I know. It is impenetrable, so it may be difficult (for a while).

Main thing is to just sit back, wait, enjoy some music. What's the rush?
Even if it is a limited edition or something, it still can be approached in more of an economic rather than an emotional viewpoint.
Maybe there is an expected shortage, so it will hold its value for some time. Maybe they've actually Cracked it. Wish that was true.
In reality, you just have to decide as to what heavy compromise you are willing to take.
Maybe you just don't need to care about depreciation, and you like a certain brand enough to be curious about whatever they do.
Don't think either approach is wrong.

And if any "mistakes", negative experiences happen with a particular brand, people Can learn from them. (main point is the Can part...)
Or just try and influence others in a potentially detrimental manner...
Whether those "carefully worded", or fun and enticing video reviews lean on the customer or manufacture side, I let viewers be the judges on that. Not easy to provide honest feedback, and be nice to the manufacturer at the same time.
Some channels seem to get loaners from private owners, seem to be less hyped, but they also regularly get others from manufacturers, distibutors...all a tricky fine line.


Ok, back on the CRBN:

It's more to do with: if an upgrade is this easy (and worthwhile to do at this no-brainer price), then it just may not be that significant (or it may not be completely one-way).
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/can...ead-september-28-29-2024.974304/post-18350566 It is reely that different? (sry)
Press material seems to be focusing improving bass response, but it doesn't say much about improving other things that an OG was criticized for.
People may either like both, or neither.
Maybe a little more attention to detail, like a detachable cable would be nice at this level - even an SR-X1 has it...
Let's just see those meet impressions rollin' in.

P.S.: There was what seemed like a decent CRBN video review on the Max Settings channel (titled: a SMRT product), which has been removed.
Anyone knows why?

 

[KMann]

One perk of the CC over the normal carbon is Mjolnir makes it with 2 jacks, so if you want one to be a he90 or NB jack there is a benefit. Additionally, there have been reported sonic differences between the two - small, but notable in a blind test.

I personally went standard carbon but there is some merit in going CC

When I first received the Carbon CC, I had both of them, side by side. Here were my notes from a few years

Carbon CC improves over Carbon on clarity and transparency. Edges are more pronounced, bass notes sound more natural, depth and separation improved. Absolutely silent when I turned it all the way up. All this with a cold start and powered on for 20- 30 minutes.

So yes, it is a worth a while improvement for me. (ps: My version is somewhat of a unicorn, the last one with ALPS pot, single output and RCA inputs.)

 

[TheAbyss2022]

When I first received the Carbon CC, I had both of them, side by side. Here were my notes from a few years

Carbon CC improves over Carbon on clarity and transparency. Edges are more pronounced, bass notes sound more natural, depth and separation improved. Absolutely silent when I turned it all the way up. All this with a cold start and powered on for 20- 30 minutes.

So yes, it is a worth a while improvement for me. (ps: My version is somewhat of a unicorn, the last one with ALPS pot, single output and RCA inputs.)

Thank you for this, very helpful.