[Leopold13]

Very early days for me with the PA10 but it powers HD800S.
Mojo 2 is a great pairing.
I find it funny there’s no review s of this amp.
It might be a case of it being too cheap to be taken seriously?

So far I have tried it with 4 cheaper dongle dac things and a Mojo 2 and it improved all of them.

I’m not in the habit of hyping things or recommending them with out first trying them but this ???
Yeah / maybe?
I’m still in the honeymoon period and have still to connect it balanced from a desktop dac but it sounds far better than I imagined it would.

Single ended fed from Mojo 2 it betters my Vorzuge Pure ii+.
Not a fair fight I know as the PA10 is at least 4x the weight and 3 x the size.

Build quality is outstanding.
Volume control simply wonderful.
Take this all with a pinch of salt as usual as it just my take.
Shall post more once I have some more hours on it but for now I’m very pleased with it.

Well done AK.

Hi @rocketron , I just order AK PA10. My intention setup is Music Source > ak hc4 + ak pa10 > senn hd800s. However my friend (800s owner) said this setup can't provide enough power for hd800s to play in its full dynamic range. Since you have tried the similar setup (PA10 + dac > hd800s), Could you help me with some advice and suggestion? Thank you very much.

 

[123peter]

Hi @rocketron , I just order AK PA10. My intention setup is Music Source > ak hc4 + ak pa10 > senn hd800s. However my friend (800s owner) said this setup can't provide enough power for hd800s to play in its full dynamic range. Since you have tried the similar setup (PA10 + dac > hd800s), Could you help me with some advice and suggestion? Thank you very much.

Astell & Kern Kann Ultra + Astell & Kern PA10
(Only this balanced connection of 4.4-4.4mm makes more sense and creates the WOW effect!)

I am MORE than very pleased with this sandwich
with Sennheiser HD800s 300Ω headphones
- in the option of listening from KANN ULTRA alone, the sufficient volume is 80-90/150 in Ultra balanced mode (16Vrms)
- in the option of listening with PA10 after balanced output from KANN Ultra 4.4mm and 4V LineOut from KANN ULTRA
~1/3 of the PA10 potentiometer knob gives enough volume without GAIN (4.2Vrms) or with GAIN (6.2Vrms) it's fire!

How to convert A&K - new Vrms to mW - long topic and similar to
- why with PA10 at such low power from the specifications
Compared to 16Vrms from the DAP itself, the power is so audible
- the voltage on LineOut from the DAP certainly plays an important role here

Using PA10 and IEM headphones with low impedance < or =16Ω - like my Astell & Kern AK T9iE - the power is astonishing
and I suggest going down to LineOut from DAP to 2V.

Please note that Kann Ultra has three dedicated signal output methods:
1.HeadPhoneOut - Balanced 4.4mm and Unbalanced 3.5mm
2.LineOut - Balanced 4.4mm and Unbalanced 3.5mm
3.PreOut - Balanced 4.4mm and Unbalanced 3.5mm
in the latter two you can set several output voltages

Astell & Kern AK HC4 - has 2 outputs
The manufacturer provides the output power but not the voltage in Volts.
Because this dongle is probably not dedicated to such a purpose.

HeadPhoneOut - Balanced 4.4mm (3Vrms) and Unbalanced 3.5mm (2Vrms)
I guess that by connecting HC4 to PA10 it will work as PreOut
Will this provide a good control signal for PA10 and drive HD800s?
You need to check, especially at higher volumes, whether there is any clipping and no more distortion.

 

[Leopold13]

Astell & Kern Kann Ultra + Astell & Kern PA10
(Only this balanced connection of 4.4-4.4mm makes more sense and creates the WOW effect!)

I am MORE than very pleased with this sandwich
with Sennheiser HD800s 300Ω headphones
- in the option of listening from KANN ULTRA alone, the sufficient volume is 80-90/150 in Ultra balanced mode (16Vrms)
- in the option of listening with PA10 after balanced output from KANN Ultra 4.4mm and 4V LineOut from KANN ULTRA
~1/3 of the PA10 potentiometer knob gives enough volume without GAIN (4.2Vrms) or with GAIN (6.2Vrms) it's fire!

How to convert A&K - new Vrms to mW - long topic and similar to
- why with PA10 at such low power from the specifications
Compared to 16Vrms from the DAP itself, the power is so audible
- the voltage on LineOut from the DAP certainly plays an important role here

Using PA10 and IEM headphones with low impedance < or =16Ω - like my Astell & Kern AK T9iE - the power is astonishing
and I suggest going down to LineOut from DAP to 2V.

Please note that Kann Ultra has three dedicated signal output methods:
1.HeadPhoneOut - Balanced 4.4mm and Unbalanced 3.5mm
2.LineOut - Balanced 4.4mm and Unbalanced 3.5mm
3.PreOut - Balanced 4.4mm and Unbalanced 3.5mm
in the latter two you can set several output voltages

Astell & Kern AK HC4 - has 2 outputs
The manufacturer provides the output power but not the voltage in Volts.
Because this dongle is probably not dedicated to such a purpose.

HeadPhoneOut - Balanced 4.4mm (3Vrms) and Unbalanced 3.5mm (2Vrms)
I guess that by connecting HC4 to PA10 it will work as PreOut
Will this provide a good control signal for PA10 and drive HD800s?
You need to check, especially at higher volumes, whether there is any clipping and no more distortion.

Dear @123peter , I am so grateful to have your detail guidance. I will test and comeback with the result right after I receive the PA10. Have a nice day.

 

[BS5711]

I am so grateful to have your detail guidance. I will test and comeback with the result right after I receive the PA10. Have a nice day.

If the dongle DAC can't provide appropriate voltage to input an adequate "line out" signal (pre amp strictly speaking) the PA10 power/voltage output will suffer badly.

On my FiiO M11 Plus using adjustable line out versus fixed full voltage line out makes a dramatic difference if the volume is set even only relatively slightly below maximum.

That is with the PA10 driving IEM and it would be even more apparent driving headphones.

 

[Leopold13]

If the dongle DAC can't provide appropriate voltage to input an adequate "line out" signal (pre amp strictly speaking) the PA10 power/voltage output will suffer badly.

On my FiiO M11 Plus using adjustable line out versus fixed full voltage line out makes a dramatic difference if the volume is set even only relatively slightly below maximum.

That is with the PA10 driving IEM and it would be even more apparent driving headphones.

Dear @BS5711 , thank you very much for your advice. Should you have any dac in mind for this case: dac + PA10 > HD800s?

 

[BS5711]

Dear @BS5711 , thank you very much for your advice. Should you have any dac in mind for this case: dac + PA10 > HD800s?

Any good DAC that can output 4 volts from a 4.4mm would get the most out of the PA10 assuming you want to use the 4.4mm headphone out of the PA10 which I assume you will (should) with the HD800.

I have used a FiiO M11 Plus DAP, Shanling M3 Ultra DAP, iFi Gryphon all into the 4.4mm and a Chord Mojo into the 3.5mm.

I have used a couple of dongles into the 4.4mm setting them to about 75% volume from the 4.4mm headphone out and they do fine but as said before the reduced input voltage will significantly reduce the output voltage of the PA10. OK with IEM, probably not HD800. Dongle to 75% to avoid distortion, a lot written by Cayin about using a dongle/amp as a DAC in the RU6 thread here.

Hard to recommend specifically when use case, budget, preferences etc are not known.

 

[Leopold13]

Any good DAC that can output 4 volts from a 4.4mm would get the most out of the PA10 assuming you want to use the 4.4mm headphone out of the PA10 which I assume you will (should) with the HD800.

I have used a FiiO M11 Plus DAP, Shanling M3 Ultra DAP, iFi Gryphon all into the 4.4mm and a Chord Mojo into the 3.5mm.

I have used a couple of dongles into the 4.4mm setting them to about 75% volume from the 4.4mm headphone out and they do fine but as said before the reduced input voltage will significantly reduce the output voltage of the PA10. OK with IEM, probably not HD800. Dongle to 75% to avoid distortion, a lot written by Cayin about using a dongle/amp as a DAC in the RU6 thread here.

Hard to recommend specifically when use case, budget, preferences etc are not known.

Thank you. I quite get the whole picture now. My use case:
1- At home/ office (Frequently) : Macbook Pro -> dac + PA10 > HD800s
2- Travelling (Occasionally): DAP (I own DX220 but seems not suitable for this case) > dac + PA10 > HD800s

A little off topic, I find some potential candidates as Cayin RU7, Fiio KA17 (https://www.fiio.com/KA17_parameters), L&P W4. Off which seems Fiio KA17 is the one. Hope to hear your advise on these guys.

 

[BS5711]

Thank you. I quite get the whole picture now. My use case:
1- At home/ office (Frequently) : Macbook Pro -> dac + PA10 > HD800s
2- Travelling (Occasionally): DAP (I own DX220 but seems not suitable for this case) > dac + PA10 > HD800s

A little off topic, I find some potential candidates as Cayin RU7, Fiio KA17 (https://www.fiio.com/KA17_parameters), L&P W4. Off which seems Fiio KA17 is the one. Hope to hear your advise on these guys.

I am not really a dongle guy so I don’t have an opinion on those others.

If you had an amp module with a balanced line out for the DX220 that would seem like a very good source for the PA10.

 

[divineatma]

Any good DAC that can output 4 volts from a 4.4mm would get the most out of the PA10 assuming you want to use the 4.4mm headphone out of the PA10 which I assume you will (should) with the HD800.

I have used a FiiO M11 Plus DAP, Shanling M3 Ultra DAP, iFi Gryphon all into the 4.4mm and a Chord Mojo into the 3.5mm.

I have used a couple of dongles into the 4.4mm setting them to about 75% volume from the 4.4mm headphone out and they do fine but as said before the reduced input voltage will significantly reduce the output voltage of the PA10. OK with IEM, probably not HD800. Dongle to 75% to avoid distortion, a lot written by Cayin about using a dongle/amp as a DAC in the RU6 thread here.

Hard to recommend specifically when use case, budget, preferences etc are not known.

How well do the M11+PA10 and Mojo+PA10 combos work?

 

[BS5711]

They both work fine and sound great.

I am not one for dissecting the minutiae between sources so to my ear they sound the same.

Of course with the Mojo you have a three device chain which isn’t as practical but it works. You are also limited to the less powerful 3.5mm output of the PA10 but that is sufficient for most IEM and headphones.

Many say the 4.4mm sounds better than the 3.5mm output but again I just tend to listen and enjoy the music I don’t tend to dissect what I am hearing to differentiate any differences and I haven’t done so on the couple of occasions where I have used the Mojo.

 

[123peter]

How well do the M11+PA10 and Mojo+PA10 combos work?

FIIO M11 Plus Ltd + PA10 = This is a good sounding set, I had one like this before.

Please note the nomenclature of this M11 - DAP FIIO model series:
M11 first model (probably does not have a LineOut output shared with PO)
M11 PRO second model (probably does not have a LineOut output shared with PO)
M11 Plus Ltd (wanted limited edition 2xAKM4497) - I recommend it
M11 Plus - ESS version
M11 S - budget version

Currently, the last three DAP M11s on the list are at good prices for both new and used equipment.
In my opinion, even such an older DAP is a much better option for PA10 than a USB dongle connected to a smartphone or computer.

 

[BS5711]

M11 Plus Ltd - AKM4497
M11 Plus - ESS

I have these two.

I think they are very good overall and great value for money.

 

[divineatma]

FIIO M11 Plus Ltd + PA10 = This is a good sounding set, I had one like this before.

Please note the nomenclature of this M11 - DAP FIIO model series:
M11 first model (probably does not have a LineOut output shared with PO)
M11 PRO second model (probably does not have a LineOut output shared with PO)
M11 Plus Ltd (wanted limited edition 2xAKM4497) - I recommend it
M11 Plus - ESS version
M11 S - budget version

Currently, the last three DAP M11s on the list are at good prices for both new and used equipment.
In my opinion, even such an older DAP is a much better option for PA10 than a USB dongle connected to a smartphone or computer.

I have these two.

I think they are very good overall and great value for money.

Thank you for the info guys. I do have the M11 Plus ltd. Will most probably get the PA10 for demanding headphones.

 

[MrNailhead]

I too rock a Fiio M11 Plus Ltd into my PA10 - seems to provide more than enough power for my ZMF Eikon, they sound fantastic.

 

[RIGATIO]

Monarch 2 + sp1000 + pa10 sounds like from a very high end stationary rig, WOW! What a space, a meat on the bone and ease of the sound.