Astell&Kern A&futura SE180 - The First Modular DAP from Astell&Kern

[gLer]

Man these are pretty big statements considering you haven’t really heard everything that the current totl DAP market has to offer. Have you heard the DX300, M8 or DX220 Max? Or the SP2000 or SE200? This is why I’m so hesitant to make big generalised, sweeping statements about the gear that I own and that I am VERY happy with. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure the R8 is a great DAP and has TOTL SQ but how can you say nothing else comes close to it when you’ve had no experience with any of the other players on the market?

Let me qualify: nothing else comes close in terms of the features that *I specifically* need and use AND (anecdotally) high-end SQ. The DX300 seems to be on par. M8 has an older Android version and is quite a bit slower, none of the A&K models have full Android... That's all I'm saying. I'm not claiming the R8 is the best DAP for everyone, not the 'best sounding' (which is totally relative and subjective), just the best for me based on all the different factors I take into account when choosing a DAP.

This will vary greatly for others, without question. I know many who prefer a fuller sound (M8) and don't care for features, for example. Others who won't touch an Android DAP. So depends on use case.

But if you gel with the SQ, and demand the very latest in hardware/software in an Android DAP, the R8 (and potentially DX300) are your only options. Unless I've missed something?

PS. I'm going to jump out here since this really isn't the thread for it. Feel free to engage by PM or on the R8 thread for anything else. Apologies to SE180 thread members for divebombing my opinions here.

 

[Tristy]

Let me qualify: nothing else comes close in terms of the features that *I specifically* need and use AND (anecdotally) high-end SQ. The DX300 seems to be on par. M8 has an older Android version and is quite a bit slower, none of the A&K models have full Android... That's all I'm saying. I'm not claiming the R8 is the best DAP for everyone, not the 'best sounding' (which is totally relative and subjective), just the best for me based on all the different factors I take into account when choosing a DAP.

This will vary greatly for others, without question. I know many who prefer a fuller sound (M8) and don't care for features, for example. Others who won't touch an Android DAP. So depends on use case.

But if you gel with the SQ, and demand the very latest in hardware/software in an Android DAP, the R8 (and potentially DX300) are your only options. Unless I've missed something?

PS. I'm going to jump out here since this really isn't the thread for it. Feel free to engage by PM or on the R8 thread for anything else. Apologies to SE180 thread members for divebombing my opinions here.

That’s fair enough and I would tend to agree with you (alongside the DX300) given the parameters that you’re looking for in a DAP. I personally don’t prioritise having an open android platform so it means less to me, I’m more about streaming implementation and SQ.

 

[JasonNYC]

This is a off topic and this is only my curiosity working, for me the power is important but not the most important, you can have 1000mw but if the first mw is bad the sound is bad so you will have a bad sounding 1000mw device....of course I would like to know how much power the sp2000 has in mw, and don't understand why AK after so many people asking don't answer that, and for a dap that is (in theory at least) inferior, that answer came in the first page... Is a very weird marketing way....for a more than 3k device is almost secret.... For a plus 1k is a marketing weapon.... Sorry don't understand

I am pretty sure I've answered this multiple times on the SP2000 thread.

SP2000:
3.5mm unbalanced - around 281mW @32ohm
2.5mm balanced - around 1125mW @32ohm

 

[Queen6]

I know it's OT but to make it topical, SE180 is far from flagship by your definition. Personally I consider R8 a true flagship in every sense. It has SQ that matches (and in some ways exceeds - preference) the LPGT, and is the fastest and most feature rich of the Android DAPs (A&K is not true Android and is therefore limited by comparison). It's also HiBy's 'most expensive' DAP (and in fact is the most expensive full Android DAP available), so if price and marketing is your criteria for flagship, it's very much a flagship. SQ at this level is subjective, and not the only criteria I would use to define a flagship. Right now there's not a single DAP, regardless of cost, that I would buy in place of the R8, and that includes the SP2K.

Spot on, it's the best Android DAP available today based on the combination of features, build and SQ. A DAP is far more than SQ alone - versatility, speed, features, UI, UX, form factor, battery life, it all plays a part. R8 nails it better than anything else I've seen. Sure it will eventually be surpassed, DAP lifecycle is relatively short. But it's currently top dog in my opinion, and nothing about the SE180 changes that opinion for me.

I'd like to see A&K implement WiFi file management, DLNA and 4.4mm support in a flagship, then we can talk business.

Purely subjective opinion nothing more, R8 Is clearly a "Flagship" given it's the top of the range for Hiby players. DAP's are all generally coloured in presentation and vary in features with the best DAP being the one that meets the listeners taste & needs.

Having looked and tried SE200 there's little doubt in my mind that SE180 will set a higher standard, likely as it will be progression on the tried & proven. SE200 is sonically a technical masterpiece, however tries too hard for my liking and looses out on musicality. R8 I've listened, however too big for a portable for my liking and I tend to prefer musicality over technicality.

Q-6

 

[denis1976]

I am pretty sure I've answered this multiple times on the SP2000 thread.

SP2000:
3.5mm unbalanced - around 281mW @32ohm
2.5mm balanced - around 1125mW @32ohm

Hello, if you already answered I did not notice, sorry, thank you

 

[Vitaly2017]

That’s fair enough and I would tend to agree with you (alongside the DX300) given the parameters that you’re looking for in a DAP. I personally don’t prioritise having an open android platform so it means less to me, I’m more about streaming implementation and SQ.

Yep I am the same, I have my smartphone to cover the android apps and echo system of what ever I will need from an android.

A dap should be 100% pure and clean even if its android!

So unfortunately for @gLer the sp2000 is not of interest as he prefers features over sound quality

I tried those android daps and I puke on them sorry they dont stand in sound quality that wm1z and sp2000 offers. Hence you could at least get ibasso dx220 max that is in my opinion the best android dap and also has top sound quality, maybe @gLer should try that one?

 

[Queen6]

Yep I am the same, I have my smartphone to cover the android apps and echo system of what ever I will need from an android.

A dap should be 100% pure and clean even if its android!

So unfortunately for @gLer the sp2000 is not of interest as he prefers features over sound quality

I tried those android daps and I puke on them sorry they dont stand in sound quality that wm1z and sp2000 offers. Hence you could at least get ibasso dx220 max that is in my opinion the best android dap and also has top sound quality, maybe @gLer should try that one?

Sony WM1Z is woefully underpowered in 2021 so is out of the question to be considered as a global Flagship, worse is 90% software manipulation on Sony's behalf versus WM1A. Shanling M8 on the "Puke" list too? The price you pay for a DAP is irrelevant to the SQ past a certain price point, just a differnce in features and personal preference.

Q-6

 

[Skullar]

I just wonder where se180 will stand in relation to se200. Given that it has modules coming out in future that might be rendering it obselete.
Another thing is apart from sp2000 there is really not many comparison between A&K comparisons with other similar priced daps.

Is A&K picky on who to send review samples?
Or is it something on reviewers side?
Seems like What HiFi will always be the first to give 5 stars to AK daps. Problem is their reviews are so amateur and shallow that its not even funny.

I thing i really like about AK is 2 year warranty. But i think that is one of major factor of their pricing. As well as it should be a better QC factor.

Regardless i was looking forwards to hear se200 just to see how it competes with dx300 and R8 sound wise. But lockdowns hit
Now that all is open again se180 jumps in, so i will wait for a release of it in UK. It finally has 4.4 jack which is a must for me as i do drag my dap everywhere.
And hopefully streaming capabilities are refined. As my preferences on dap features are similar as @Tristy where i mainly would look at SQ and streaming capabilities, which obviously include good battery life.

 

[Tristy]

I just wonder where se180 will stand in relation to se200. Given that it has modules coming out in future that might be rendering it obselete.
Another thing is apart from sp2000 there is really not many comparison between A&K comparisons with other similar priced daps.

Is A&K picky on who to send review samples?
Or is it something on reviewers side?
Seems like What HiFi will always be the first to give 5 stars to AK daps. Problem is their reviews are so amateur and shallow that its not even funny.

I thing i really like about AK is 2 year warranty. But i think that is one of major factor of their pricing. As well as it should be a better QC factor.

Regardless i was looking forwards to hear se200 just to see how it competes with dx300 and R8 sound wise. But lockdowns hit
Now that all is open again se180 jumps in, so i will wait for a release of it in UK. It finally has 4.4 jack which is a must for me as i do drag my dap everywhere.
And hopefully streaming capabilities are refined. As my preferences on dap features are similar as @Tristy where i mainly would look at SQ and streaming capabilities, which obviously include good battery life.

Sorry to burst your bubble mate but the 2 year warranty no longer stands here in the UK. Another customer in one of the AK threads found this out the hard way recently with the SR25 I believe.

 

[bluestorm1992]

Yeah I was going to say that too. In US it is also 1 year now.

 

[JasonNYC]

Astell&Kern's warranty is one year, except in the EU, which is two due to EU law. Now that the UK has left the EU, any products purchased after January 1 2021 is covered by a one year warranty as is the case in the rest of the world.

 

[x X x]

Just curious if there still be limitation for only 100 starred tracks...

 

[seenoevil]

JasonNYC, aac codec as receiver from iphone are supported ?​

 

[JasonNYC]

JasonNYC, aac codec as receiver from iphone are supported ?​

It should. I will confirm.

 

[monsieurfromag3]

For peeps in or around Paris, I got in touch with Retrofutur and they will have the SE180 up for demo in late May.

Now to fend off the maskless hipsters crowding around the Quai de Valmy for a beer under the stupid blue sky.