ASIO 4 all

Oct 28, 2006 at 11:47 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 24

brospin

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Has anyone used the ASIO4all generic driver? Is it recommended or is ot better to use device-specific drivers? The ASIO4all can drive soundcards that are not ASIO compliant? Any explanation for this?
 
Oct 28, 2006 at 12:58 PM Post #2 of 24
ASIO4All is a wrapper. A translator for ASIO to DirectSound.

It let's cards with no ASIO support use ASIO applications by translating the ASIO data into DirectSound format. That's it that's all.

If your card has native ASIO support do not use ASIO4All since it isn't an ASIO driver, its a translator.

Or in other words if you use ASIO4All to select ASIO Output in Foobar you might as well select DirectSound because that's all ASIO4All is doing... taking ASIO stream and translating it to DS.
 
Oct 28, 2006 at 1:56 PM Post #3 of 24
How can we know if ASIO is properly functioning? I have read that an indication is when music is playing, no other sound should play (window beeps, for example). With my Prodigy soundcard, that is the case when I use Kernel Streaming. ASIO, on the other hand (using driver-level ASIO output), still allows other sound to play. What do you think of this?

Thanks!

p.s. I can also hear a difference between the two outputs though I'm still undecided which one actually sounds 'worse'. I'm keeping to KS for the moment just because it sets my mind at ease.
wink.gif
 
Oct 28, 2006 at 4:10 PM Post #4 of 24
Quote:

Originally Posted by Solude
ASIO4All is a wrapper. A translator for ASIO to DirectSound.


Not DS, but WDM/KS.

BTW, I hadn't noticed that with the current Prodigy 7.1 drivers using native ASIO still allows concurrent playback of other sounds, though the result doesn't sound very pretty. Older ones entirely blocked the card then, to the point that the whole Windows sound subsystem could go belly up if you weren't careful.

Oh, and if you can hear a difference between native ASIO and KS, try turning the Wave volume slider to max and compare again.
 
Oct 28, 2006 at 4:57 PM Post #5 of 24
I use KS, it was a big jump in SQ over DS.
smily_headphones1.gif


I get no PC noises either, but if foobar is stopped, PC audio comes back on.
580smile.gif


I got a 'KS is dangerous' warning when I started using it in foobar, so that tells me I'm using it, none of the problems either, mind you I have a very quick computer.


Quote:

Originally Posted by sgrossklass
Oh, and if you can hear a difference between native ASIO and KS, try turning the Wave volume slider to max and compare again.


How exactly could two bit-perfect streams be different? I'm no audio technician, but I don't see this would work?
 
Oct 28, 2006 at 6:05 PM Post #6 of 24
Quote:

Originally Posted by sgrossklass
Not DS, but WDM/KS.


WDM = DirectSound
KernelStream is still DirectSound but single stream.

So again, if you don't have ASIO which will mix with WDM to allow music and game to play simultaniously... use DirectSound or KernelStream if you aren't interested in mixing streams.

ASIO4All is intended for use with applications that have no WDM support. That's the only situation where using ASIO4All is adding function to your PC.
 
Oct 29, 2006 at 4:05 AM Post #7 of 24
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed
How exactly could two bit-perfect streams be different? I'm no audio technician, but I don't see this would work?


I did not expect to hear a difference either. But on certain songs the 'tings' of piano had a different sound both with KS and ASIO. Since I don't play the piano, I can't tell which one sounds more 'correct'.
 
Oct 29, 2006 at 12:06 PM Post #8 of 24
Quote:

Originally Posted by Solude
ASIO4All is a wrapper. A translator for ASIO to DirectSound.

It let's cards with no ASIO support use ASIO applications by translating the ASIO data into DirectSound format. That's it that's all.

If your card has native ASIO support do not use ASIO4All since it isn't an ASIO driver, its a translator.

Or in other words if you use ASIO4All to select ASIO Output in Foobar you might as well select DirectSound because that's all ASIO4All is doing... taking ASIO stream and translating it to DS.




Are the ASIO drivers software-linked or device-linked? If I use Foobar and a soundcard or DAC that is ASIO compatible, what do I need: An ASIO driver for the soundcard/DAC or for Foobar or for both? If I have the proper Foobar ASIO driver installed, will Foobar automatically recognize any ASIO compliant device that is switched to the computer?
 
Oct 29, 2006 at 9:06 PM Post #9 of 24
It's an output format not driver but yes, in Foobar simply ADD the ASIO device. Any ASIO compatible device will be in the list to select from.
 
Oct 30, 2006 at 7:35 PM Post #10 of 24
Quote:

Originally Posted by Solude
WDM = DirectSound
KernelStream is still DirectSound but single stream.



WDM cannot be the same as DSound - there are plenty of cards with Win9x VxD drivers supporting only waveOut and DSound after all. As far as I know, it's the underlying interface for waveOut and (at least non-hardware accelerated) DSound starting from Win2k, with kernel streaming being kind of a dirty hack to access this. I once tried to exchange part of the WDM sound subsystem in Win2k to obtain 24/192 support, but what happened was that the whole sound subsystem stopped working.
 
Oct 31, 2006 at 9:08 AM Post #11 of 24
The Win32 Driver Model (WDM), overview:

diagr.gif



Driver Componentry on Win2k/WDM:

audio_2.gif



Simplified Driver Componentry:

audio_3.gif


Source: http://www.cakewalk.com/devxchange/audio_i.asp

Also,

#1:

Quote:

Many soundcards designed primarily for musicians now arrive with an often bewildering array of driver options, including ME, DirectSound, ASIO, EASI, WDM, and GSIF, so choosing the right one for the job can be confusing.

MME (MultiMedia Extensions) were the first Windows driver type to be introduced way back in Windows 3.1, and although they work quite well, normally give high audio latency (the delay between inputting and hearing the sound), which makes them difficult to use when you want to monitor your recordings in real-time. They can work well with some standalone softsynths, and particularly well inside Cakewalk's Sonar. However, if your music application supports ASIO, EASI, or WDM, always choose one of these options in preference if your soundcard supports it.

DirectSound drivers are capable of significantly lower latency than MME ones, and are a better choice for softsynths and playback of audio, but don't normally have recording options. Make sure though if you choose DirectSound in a music application that the driver name doesn't have ‘(emulated)' at the end of its name, since this means that no properly written DirectSound drivers have been detected - if you choose an emulated driver it will have extremely poor performance and high latency.

Steinberg's ASIO (Audio Stream Input Output) format drivers access the soundcard hardware at a lower level, bypassing much of the Windows operating system, and therefore manage much lower latencies, typically 20mS or lower, and sometimes down as low as 2mS! The only disadvantage of ASIO is that only one soundcard can be accessed within applications like Cubase VST.

EASI (Enhanced Audio Streaming Interface) is a similar format to ASIO, used by applications such as Logic Audio, and capable of slightly better performance for the few soundcards that seem to support the format. If yours does, you should choose it instead of ASIO.

WDM (Win32 Driver Model) was introduced by Microsoft in Windows 98, and was intended to simplify future driver development, by providing a unified design suitable for both consumer and business operating systems, such that one driver would be totally compatible across all future platforms. Another advantage for WDM drivers is that they are better suited for busses like USB and FireWire. It also incorporates a standard low latency wave interface into Windows itself, so that a WDM driver automatically gets both MME and DirectSound support from Windows without needing special code added by each soundcard manufacturer.
WDM drivers are now supported by Win 98, ME, 2000, and XP, and if your soundcard has these you should choose them in preference to MME and DirectSound. It's slightly more complex when it comes to ASIO - if your music applications supports both types and you have more than one soundcard installed you may be happier choosing WDM so that you can access them simultaneously, but otherwise the chances are that ASIO is the safest choice, since WDM performance is still not as good in some cases, and in Win 2000 and XP some drivers may also limit you to working with 16-bit files.

GSIF (GigaSampler InterFace) drivers are specifically designed to work with the Tascam range of soft samplers. Since they operate a low level, GSIF drivers nearly always provide excellent performance at very low guaranteed latencies of between 6 to 9mS (although a few drives do offer buffer size selection).


#2:
Windows driver API basics - http://www.staudio.de/kb/english/drivers/


jiitee
 
Oct 31, 2006 at 4:45 PM Post #12 of 24
Hi,

If I connect TotalBitHead with my laptop, will it bypass KMIXER and other bad sound processing stages? Or Should I also use ASIO as device output in Foobar to make it happen?

I have only ASIO4ALL installed in my laptop. I hear that it's not a full fledged ASIO (just a translator). In that case, Should I download some other ASIO version?

Please clarify my doubts. These are lingering in my mind for very long time.

Thanks.
 
Oct 31, 2006 at 5:36 PM Post #13 of 24
As you see on above pictures, all other driver modes but ASIO and WDM/KS (Kernel Streaming, see behind the staudio link (#2) above) (EASI and maybe GSIF too) outputs through kmixer --> Foobar w/

- Asio4All + foo_output_asio
and
- foo_out_ks (kernel streaming)

should both work the way as you wish.

jiitee
 
Oct 31, 2006 at 6:03 PM Post #14 of 24
Thanks jiiteepee. From your statement i understand that if we want to by pass KMIXER we should always use

foo_out_asio + ASIO4ALL -->DAC -->AMP

The DAC could be either TotalBitHead (it doesn't say it support ASIO) or M-Audio Transit (which says it supports ASIO). Am I correct?
 
Oct 31, 2006 at 6:45 PM Post #15 of 24
I have a Total Bithead and I tried ASIO4All + foo_output_asio. I got it to output sound, but the volume control in Windows still changed the output volume, so I assume it is not working correctly???? Also, it sounds the same (to me) as DS.

Also, trying kernal streaming, Foobar won't do anything. I select a track, push play, and nothing happens.

Any help/tips, are appreciated.

GTP
Quote:

Originally Posted by jiiteepee
As you see on above pictures, all other driver modes but ASIO and WDM/KS (Kernel Streaming, see behind the staudio link (#2) above) (EASI and maybe GSIF too) outputs through kmixer --> Foobar w/

- Asio4All + foo_output_asio
and
- foo_out_ks (kernel streaming)

should both work the way as you wish.

jiitee



 

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