[Heidshade]

I think the argument about limiting power outputs on portable audio can be easily related to speed limits on roads, it's there for the general protection of the majority.
Of course some people could drive faster safely in their BMW 5 series

, and if we were all sensible and restrained we could survive without speed limits, but generally that's not the case.
And as for Germany, they're allowed a degree of leeway on certain parts of the autobahns iirc

, though voluntarily Euro car manufacturers limit their most powerful cars to 155mph to protect customers who would go faster than that from themselves on these roads.
Naturally it's not illegal to bypass these limiters, just as you could alter your player to provide more juice, like using the US firmware for the iPod.

 

[Claude]

I have a iRiver IHP120 that I ordered in Germany. Currently I use the latest european firmware 1.40.

With Sennheiser MX500 or PX200, the volume of the headphone output is loud enough, at maximum it would be unbearable for me even for a minute. It even drives the Sennheiser HD580 loud enough (at maximum setting).

Is the iRiver not limited in volume?

 

[y0da]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heidshade I think the argument about limiting power outputs on portable audio can be easily related to speed limits on roads, it's there for the general protection of the majority. Of course some people could drive faster safely in their BMW 5 series , and if we were all sensible and restrained we could survive without speed limits, but generally that's not the case. And as for Germany, they're allowed a degree of leeway on certain parts of the autobahns iirc , though voluntarily Euro car manufacturers limit their most powerful cars to 155mph to protect customers who would go faster than that from themselves on these roads. Naturally it's not illegal to bypass these limiters, just as you could alter your player to provide more juice, like using the US firmware for the iPod.

there is a big differnace between legisltaion that exists to protect the public from things that don't just hurt the person doing them I.E. driveing 185 mph down the highway (i see no problem with that personally) and legislation to protect the public from themselves....listening to music at a loud volume at worse only effects the person who is takeing part in that activity ....whats next volume limits at all those festival raves that happen all over europe....people should know what there getting themselves into and if they don't there stupid anyway and most likely will come to an untimely end regardless of how much regulation you throw at them

 

[Duncan]

I'm personally severely against this legislation...

What gives someone the right to tell me that I can't listen at a volume i'm comfortable with?

Using the car analogy is a little off... cars are on the most part limited to 155mph, but that is like limiting a headphone output to 20mw/pc... now, limit those cars to 40mph.... and you've got a fairer comparison

Nevermind, as dweebgal says, as and when I can - i'm going to get an iPod mini from the US, and just make sure that I never flash the thing...

 

[intlplby]

as far as people being able to hear you all around... that is the case with my headphones.... they are open.... and they dont have to be too loud for people to hear all around me..... i can't use them in a library

at 75-80db everyone can listen to the music.... at 95+db they headphones are portable speakers to other people



i think ideally the manufacturer should digitally set the gain so it plays at a maximum of 95-100db with the stock headphones

and then make a firmware download available where the person can enter their aftermarket headphone model and it gives you back an unlock code for a different gain level......

the manufacturers would set the different gain levels depending on the impedance and style of different headphones

then they just include and insert that says "This device has been designed with safe hearing levels in mind when used with the stock earbuds. If you use aftermarket earbuds or headphones please visit http://www.manufacturer.com/devicemo...lumeudpate.htm and get a setting code corresponding to your headphone model."

 

[cosmopragma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Reeves Hi Greenhorn, I am against the so called "nanny" state when it goes to extremes and that includes some of the stupid political correctness. John

I agree.
OTOH we are in serious trouble.
The majority of our teenagers are already semideaf, they got their first player at age 8.
Our navy can hardly find recruits for their sonars.
Visit a german cinema, the sound level really hurts, and I'm 44 with a normal hearing according to my age.
I can't stand it without hearing protection, the teens are very comfortable with it.

 

[Sczervok]

The seatbelts and powersocket plastic protectors are meant for preventing accidents.
It is no accident that you turned your volume high just so you could hear it.
There's warning lables on practically everything audio related, from digital music players, to headphones, that warn of hearing damage at high levels. If you want to ignore that, then fine then. You injure yourself, knowing exactly what you're doing (instead of totalling your car when you didn't mean to)

Heck, if someone bothers you with how loudly their listening to their music, just laugh at the guy when he pulls out his phones and can't understand half of what everyone's saying.

If kids can't safely control their music listening levels (which I don't see how), then it's the parent's responsibility to check their kids. When I got my first player, I was horrified that I was turning up the volume just to feel the sound. I never went above what I thought was a dangerous level...

I myself do think this 1.5mw limitation is kinda stupid. After all, hardware flashes, portable amps, it's too easy to get past this limitation.

Listening to stuff loudly isn't bad. But when you're at the point where you're causing permanent damage to your ears... what's the point? By then, I doubt you'll be able to discerne between Koss Plugs and A900s. Which by then, Head-Fi will become useless to you... and we don't want that to happen ^^;

 

[Idiot MD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heidshade I think the argument about limiting power outputs on portable audio can be easily related to speed limits on roads, it's there for the general protection of the majority. Of course some people could drive faster safely in their BMW 5 series , and if we were all sensible and restrained we could survive without speed limits, but generally that's not the case. And as for Germany, they're allowed a degree of leeway on certain parts of the autobahns iirc , though voluntarily Euro car manufacturers limit their most powerful cars to 155mph to protect customers who would go faster than that from themselves on these roads. Naturally it's not illegal to bypass these limiters, just as you could alter your player to provide more juice, like using the US firmware for the iPod.

I don't think this is a valid comparison since when you crash a over 100 kmph you might take others with you but you can't damage other people's hearing with can no matter how open they are nor how loud you play it (you would have to use speakers and even then, people can just move away as opposed to being stuck on the same road as you). Speed limits are designed to protect the public at large, not individuals such as limiting the output of European personal audio systems. I can understand taking away personal liberties (freedoms) to protect the public/group of individuals, this is the government's job when it comes to fulfilling the people's needs which includes a sense of security. But I can not understand how taking away a personal liberty to protect individuals from themselves, especially when the people at large do not require it.

If that doesn't make much sense (sorry for the verbal gymnastics) let me sum it up in one question: Whose interests does it serve to limit the output on portables?

 

[Heidshade]

Whether or not the detail of the comparisom is valid or not in other's eyes still doesn't detract from the fact that speed (or volume) limits are there to protect someone from harm. If they weren't there, there would be more likelihood of said harm happening. Seems a simple concept to me. I don't necessarily agree with it btw, I can judge for myself what is a dangerous level, I hope.
Don't forget the absolute majority of portable players are bought or used by a younger generation.

 

[cosmopragma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idiot MD If that doesn't make much sense (sorry for the verbal gymnastics) let me sum it up in one question: Whose interests does it serve to limit the output on portables?

The interests of 6 up to 12 years old kids.
They have no or less sense for consequences, whatever you tell them.
And no, I cannot and even don't want to control my 10 years old stepson 24/7/365.
An older teenager or an adult can easily circumvent the limitation.
Again, the hearing of the majority of our teenagers is already damaged.
I really don't like our Eurocrats, but this regulation seems to be reasonable.

 

[Patchmaster]

Quote:

I think the argument about limiting power outputs on portable audio can be easily related to speed limits on roads, it's there for the general protection of the majority.

A closer analogy would be if government mandated that fuel can be provided to the engine no faster than X-ml/sec (or whatever the appropriate unit would be), regardless of the size of the engine or the car. That's essentially what happens when you limit the portable players to some specific maximum output wattage.

I think a better solution would be to allow the manufacturer to provide whatever output wattage they want, but have some kind of warning light come on when the advisory limit is exceeded. This lets the user know they may be in the danger zone, but if they've replaced the stock earbuds with something less efficient they can still crank it up to the level needed to drive the replacement earbuds. And for those truly wanting a nanny in the portable player, provide some kind of parental lock feature that will really limit the output.
Quote:

Again, the hearing of the majority of our teenagers is already damaged. I really don't like our Eurocrats, but this regulation seems to be reasonable.

Do you have some evidence to back up the claim that the MAJORITY of teenagers have hearing damage? Frankly, I find that a bit hard to believe. I listened to my share of loud music when I was a kid and the only loss shown in a recent hearing test was above 16kHz, which, I suspect, is pretty normal for ears as old as mine.

As for the regulation, it's only remotely reasonable if you use the (usually crappy) stock earbuds. Better quality earbuds tend to be less efficient and therefore won't be capable of being driven to reasonable listening levels by one of these output-limited players. Mandating a limit on the output is an ill-informed solution. OTOH, it could be a boon to the portable headphone amp industry, unless this stupid law covers those as well.

 

[Aydn]

im a teen and i HAD canal phones.. for two weeks, befor the headaches and the toothaches and the ringing became unbearable. almost two months later now i can put my headphones back on without pain for any period of time, but at nearly half the volume. i believe the volumes i was comfortable with then were 20/25 on my portable unit... masssssive presure on my ear drums

, not cool.

live n you learn, just feel kinda bad that i sold the canal phones to another teen

 

[maurus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman Not necessarily, and I for one think the volume limitation is a total waste of time. I know why Sony do it, but I for one can't imagine why they can't implement it in a way which would let the stupid wreck their hearing with the stock buds and the informed have a wider choice of headphones to use unamped. The AVLS function on all of their machines accomplishes this but in a volume-limited model, this is completely redundant. So why not set on AVLS as standard? Include instructions for switching off AVLS with appropriate warnings about hearling loss. That way if customers switch off AVLS, it's not Sony's responsibility anymore.

You mean that if I deactivate the AVLS, already I has the European model Sony D-ne300 to 5mW, instead of a 1,5 mW?

Tell you YES....

-Maurus

 

[maurus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman Not necessarily, and I for one think the volume limitation is a total waste of time. I know why Sony do it, but I for one can't imagine why they can't implement it in a way which would let the stupid wreck their hearing with the stock buds and the informed have a wider choice of headphones to use unamped. The AVLS function on all of their machines accomplishes this but in a volume-limited model, this is completely redundant. So why not set on AVLS as standard? Include instructions for switching off AVLS with appropriate warnings about hearling loss. That way if customers switch off AVLS, it's not Sony's responsibility anymore.

You mean that if I deactivate the AVLS, already I has the European model Sony D-ne300 to 5mW, instead of a 1,5 mW?

Tell me you YES....

or can I upgrade the firmware of Sony D-NE300 for remove that limitation?

-Maurus

 

[JuXXy]

Thankfully I didn't get it on my Zen Touch, but my old Sony discman had 1.5mW maximum and that was irritating.