[commando]

I'm in the process of doing a review of a bunch of IEMs... I have the whole Jays range (D, Q, and J), MD33, ATH-CK7, Sony EX90 and EX52, EP630, and have had the EX71, Shure E3, and v-Moda before. I'll post the review, but not until i've had them for a few more weeks.

My initial impression is that armature based IEMs have fantastic detail, but the bass is pretty poor. For example I was listening to a passage in the Phantom of the Opera soundtrack using the q-JAYS (dual armature), and thought to myself that the passage seemed to be missing something. Swapping to the Sony EX52 I realised that the q-JAYS had completely missed the deep bass. You can vaguely hear what should be there, but with the Sonys (dynamic driver) you can hear a deep, full bass that's just not present on the q-JAYS. The d-JAYS are similar, but worse, in that they miss the really crisp highs and still don't have the bass.

Is this a general rule, that armature based IEMs don't have good bass? How about triple armature IEMs?

The highs and mids on the q-JAYS are fantastic though, but the lack of bass bugs me too much. What we need is an IEM with a dynamic woofer and dual armatures for mids and highs!

 

[jinx20001]

maybe you should check out the super fi 5 EB as these certainly hit the bass notes well with decent but not superb mids and highs

 

[commando]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif maybe you should check out the super fi 5 EB as these certainly hit the bass notes well with decent but not superb mids and highs

I had Super Fi.5 (not EB) and didn't much like them. Great clarity, but poor bass. I didn't bother with the EB's.

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by commando /img/forum/go_quote.gif I had Super Fi.5 (not EB) and didn't much like them. Great clarity, but poor bass. I didn't bother with the EB's.

this is interesting because it is has been proven that the EB has equal if not better accuracy than the super fi 5 but you would be amazed at the bass power aswell because ofcourse it uses that dynamic driver combo.

ill try and fish out that info to prove my accuracy point and post it up. may be worth checking out because the accuracy is supposed to be evens but many complain the big bass kills it big time

 

[commando]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif this is interesting because it is has been proven that the EB has equal if not better accuracy than the super fi 5 but you would be amazed at the bass power aswell because ofcourse it uses that dynamic driver combo. ill try and fish out that info to prove my accuracy point and post it up. may be worth checking out because the accuracy is supposed to be evens but many complain the big bass kills it big time

Interesting. What I read at the time was they weren't so clear and the bass wasn't much better. At $140 they're quite a bit cheaper than the q-JAYS and might be worth me trying out, but it's just more money and I already spent about US$700 on the ones I have.

PS your sig is huge... quite distracting.

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by commando /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting. What I read at the time was they weren't so clear and the bass wasn't much better. At $140 they're quite a bit cheaper than the q-JAYS and might be worth me trying out, but it's just more money and I already spent about US$700 on the ones I have. PS your sig is huge... quite distracting.

yeh i didnt find the mids and highs very special on the EB but i just thought id point out the interesting fact that the mids and highs are as accurate at the super fi 5 pro's...which was to my amazement aswell.

my sig is not everything i own, its everything i have tested or had oportunity to listen to long enough to judge. i put it up for those that didnt like my opinions on some earphones and thought i hadnt even tried them. i do get alot of private messages because of it so its done some good for those that want a fair opinion

 

[PetCed]

What is poor bass? I think this is in the head of each user. I have friends who thinks good bass is when the head is moving from right to left side due to the speaker

. So what is "good", normal and so on is hard to say. And I wont tell anyone what is correct

 

[ClieOS]

What about those 'does IEM damage hearing' thread that we keeps seeing every week or so?

When it comes to real IEM, quantity and quality of bass are often downplayed since you are suppose to listen to them in a low volume. On the other hand, you can't really expect the much smaller armature drive to move as much air as a dynamic to create the sensation of full deep bass.

 

[4ki]

Bass resonance is something that most IEMs miss, and I think that's what commando was talking about. It's not that the bass is "good" or "bad" (totally relative words that have less to do with physics), but whether it plays to your ears with a sense of impact. To some, as mentioned, it can be movement, clarity, punch, etc.

I like the bass to be "fun"...or bass that has a medium-level of resonance, a very light kick, and only steps a smidgen into the mid-range.

Another friend likes it very tight, so that pedal-work sounds like a brief thump, and a low-end that he can hear more than he can feel. Apparently, I like "muddy" bass.

Different strokes =\

 

[commando]

What i'm talking about the frequency response of the armature based drivers. They don't create as low a frequency as a dynamic driver, and what lows they do produce aren't as strong. So instead of a reasonably flat frequency reponse graph, it might start at (for example) 40 Hz instead of 20Hz and, and there would be a slope instead of it being flat. Even the $40 EX52's have a lower, stronger bass than the $160 or $180 q-JAYS. The q-JAYS aren't bad, they're just not great in the bass department either. The clarity is quite fantastic though.

 

[ClieOS]

I agree that armature doesn't go as low as dynamic on frequency response, however, IMO bass (as we feel/listen) is more than just what we measure.

Beside the real sound wave that hits the eardrum , bass is also felt by the listener as pressure wave on the skin. For example, I often let other try my VMSS headphone and they will comment on how strong the bass is without knowing that the vibrating unit in the 'phone doesn't actually produce much sound and the speaker unit doesn't go as low as they expect - it is a combination of sound and the physical vibrating force to your ear that give you the same sensation of low powerful bass. I even let some very experienced headphone users/audiophiles tried it out and they didn't noticed it as well. They just assumed the 'phone has crazy bass.

I think my question is, could dynamic drive's physical movement contributes to a deeper, fuller bass (compare to armature)? If it can, I think someone can put some kind of miniature vibrating unit next to an armature drive to make a killer IEM. Just a thought

 

[jinx20001]

bass is bass, its designed to be felt more than heard...which explains why boom is seen as bad.

the problem IEM's have is they are unable to create anything to move,vibrate,rumble or what have you, so instead they simply have to boom, to create that bass that seems missing, the less boom there is the lighter the bass is...its as simple as that.

in other words lets say 20hz...if there is enough power driving a 20hz tone with a decent size woofer then that is simply ground shaking, it simply should not boom.

now for earphones to create that 'real' bass they have to boom so we know bass is there, just lately earphone manufacturers have managed to reduce the boom and create punch the only problem is bass is not heard so much so it is known as light or bassless.

i have the shure se530 and many say they boom, but what i love is the bass is tight but also booms a little to make the bass stand out, the fact is IEMs have to boom to make bass noticeable. the q-jays are not boomy but they do have a little punch the problem IMO is earphone manufacturers such as jays dont know wether to create boom or keep it light and tight, i think they have done a good job but they are bass light, this is why some will say wow its great tight bass...it isnt you just cant hear most of it ( and if you cant hear it...which is boom and you cant feel it...which is real bass then where is this bass people seem to believe is there)

there we go ive had my rant

 

[commando]

Quote:

Originally Posted by commando /img/forum/go_quote.gif What we need is an IEM with a dynamic woofer and dual armatures for mids and highs!

I just received review units of Super Fi.5 Extended Bass, and it turns out that they have an dynamic driver for the bass, and an amerture for the mids and highs. I've only spent a few minutes listening to them so far, but they're the best IEM i've heard so far

 

[eruditass]

you should try the shure e500's for ~$260

unless of course you really are satisified with the sf5 EB

 

[Leonard]