[FooTemps]

The HF-2 and HD800 have both come to light as somewhat controversial items recently. People are complaining about build materials of the HD800, others are complaining about the Head-F1 mistake. Thing is, in the end, everyone is just going to roll over belly up to Grado and Sennheiser. And after seeing the thread about poor driver matching, I have a feeling many more companies are in lockstep for moving over to profits over performance ala big business model...

Anyone else have the feeling that companies will get bold and give us the finger eventually? Statement models used to be built with top of the line materials and engineering, now people will bite off your head for saying the HD800 is skimping on materials. There's also a Head-F1 defense force too.

What's next?

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

I think that AKG is up next with a statement model.

 

[blessingx]

After the recent events, I have a suspicion our community will continue to expand and there will be more and more complaining, regardless of manufacturer actions. Yes, we're setting a bad precedent.

 

[FooTemps]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx /img/forum/go_quote.gif After the recent events, I have a suspicion our community will continue to expand and there will be more and more complaining, regardless of manufacturer actions. Yes, we're setting a bad precedent.

exactly, i didn't even address our side of the problem too. It just seems like we're creating a bad consumer environment.

 

[Uncle Erik]

How about Overbearing Self-Entitlement-Fi?

Why do people feel like they're entitled to manufacturers giving them exactly what they want, preferably under $100, made of CNC machined aircraft aluminum and surgical stainless with rare leather pads and oxygen free silver cables braided by virgin monks in Tibet.

And if you don't get exactly that, then the only sensible thing to do is throw yourself on the floor in tears, whining, mewling, puling, whimpering, and moaning. But they must give us what we want at just the right price or the tantrum will continue!

Grow up people. If you don't like a product, don't buy it. Some products are crap in my opinion. Instead of wringing my hands and whining, I:

1. Don't buy the product; and
2. Don't discuss the product.

As for the items in controversy:

1. Sennheiser used materials that made the best acoustic sense, not necessarily those that some people think are necessary. It pays off in the sound.

2. Head-F1? I don't give a rat's ass. I bought them and am happy with my purchase.

 

[jingles_97]

Both HD-800 and HF-2 are after a niche market. Cosmetic issues does not affect sound quality. 2db driver mismatches DOES. In any event, it's still too early in the game for HD800 too tell. If in 6 months more and more people are having issues with them and are dumping on the used market or returning them, then Sennheiser will have a problem on their hands. As for HF-2, it is a limited edition so common sense doesn't apply.

 

[FooTemps]

Uncle Erik, you're also part of the problem. After all, there are two sides to this coin. The whiners and the defense force. We've all gotten up in arms over this stuff. As long as we're not lurkers, we'll somehow contribute. I'm just saying that it may be time for the whiners and sympathizers to somehow come to a constructive consensus before companies get fed up with our crap.

 

[haloxt]

If Sennheiser doubled the price you could get better quality parts. I'm not a part of the problem, I know the solution! It is to throw more money on the problem. They should make a HD800 Special Edition that costs as much as the Orpheus system and give it all the bling bling we know it ought to have but doesn't have at the current $1400 MSRP.

 

[hew]

 

[mypasswordis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Grow up people. If you don't like a product, don't buy it. Some products are crap in my opinion. Instead of wringing my hands and whining, I: 1. Don't buy the product; and 2. Don't discuss the product.

No offense, but you should follow your own advice in regards to the K701. You're definitely one of the more vocal trash-talkers, when it really isn't that terrible sounding. Okay, it's got some stuff going on in the lower treble that makes it sound plasticky to some people. Deal with it. At least it doesn't have QC issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik As for the items in controversy: 1. Sennheiser used materials that made the best acoustic sense, not necessarily those that some people think are necessary. It pays off in the sound. 2. Head-F1? I don't give a rat's ass. I bought them and am happy with my purchase.

Sennheiser delayed production for around 3 months without mentioning anything as to a reason why it was delayed for so long, which I can easily understand can piss off people. After they started shipping, people found out their HD800s would make some sort of creaking noise, and the pads touted as being the bee's knees in terms of comfort and which people expected would be on the HD800 due to... well, Sennheiser saying they would be, were changed. Completely unacceptable for a $1400 statement headphone by one of the biggest companies in the business. There's something called testing a product before it's released into the market, which Sennheiser apparently does not understand.

Grado has always been known to have serious QC issues and all their headphones are held together with glue from a hot glue gun. It seems that the HF-2 is no different. And again, usually companies actually check for things like printing a 1 instead of an I before they ship them. If these problems occurred in any normal non-niche product (which they typically wouldn't because they actually check for these things), it'd probably get recalled immediately.

 

[nullstring]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jingles_97 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Both HD-800 and HF-2 are after a niche market. Cosmetic issues does not affect sound quality. 2db driver mismatches DOES. In any event, it's still too early in the game for HD800 too tell. If in 6 months more and more people are having issues with them and are dumping on the used market or returning them, then Sennheiser will have a problem on their hands. As for HF-2, it is a limited edition so common sense doesn't apply.

niche market? Do you mean hi-fi in general as a niche market?

It seems like we have broader range of HD800 and HF-2 purchasers than any other phone

The HD800 because it's just very good, and because alot of people are buying for the Senn name alone (Not Head-fi members)

The HF-2 because the it's limited edition. Many people figure.. if they are going to buy a grado eventually they might as well get the limited edition.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Well, OP, I would agree, but you're completely ignoring one simple fact. It is entirely your own choice to buy said headphones. If those issues bother you that much then don't buy them. Now, you might see this as a problem, but its how things work.

This sounds like more of the same people that complained about the pricing, and seemed to be convinced that there's no way a $1400 headphone would sell in this economy, and yet, they are.

Some people see things only as a function of cost to produce (sometimes including R&D, sometimes not), but fact is there is a lot of factors that play into a pricing structure. Its why some companies only sell to licensed/authorized dealers so they don't have places selling them for below MSRP.

Something else to consider is that some people would actually have been willing to pay more money to get the sound quality offered by the HD800, regardless of materials.

Personally, I agree that for that price the HD800 should be made of better materials (there's way too much BS about acoustic impact of various materials, especially when there's a lot of inexpensive ways to adjust them if need be) so I'm just going to put my money where my mouth is and not pay that price for it.

Lastly, you need to understand, there really is no such thing as a problem free product anymore, regardless of industry/market, and people, especially enthusiasts are always going to blow those out of proportion.

 

[krmathis]

We Head-Fi'ers are indeed hard to please.
For some years now there have been quite a few in-production statement/high-end headphones. Sennheiser, Sony, Grado, AKG, Audio Technica, and others made such in the past, but abandoned them for mass-market units.

When Sennheiser (HD800) and Grado (PS1000 and probably HF-2) take up the lead it is no surprise that some find something to complain about. It is either not made of the 'right' material, do not have the 'right' design, have production errors, ...
I think people should be allowed to have their opinion and express it. If everyone just suck it up and move on (not say a thing), how would the vendors get feedback and possibly even fix/upgrade their units?

Some of us care about the looks of a product as well, and complain when it is not right. While others could not care less as long as it sounds great. That is fine for me, but we should all allow those with the other opinion to have and express it. Without risking an attack!

With the recent move by Sennheiser and Grado I hope this is the beginning of a new era, and that more vendors will see the that there are a demand to fill in the market. Perhaps even taking some risk, and not just thing about revenue and safe sales.

AKG, do you hear me?

 

[paaj]

With the HF2 a mistake was made, they acknowledged it but it is just too costly to fix for what I think was never meant to be a profitable project. As long as the sound is good I will be happy. If they'd put it in the regular product line I'm sure it would cost more than the RS1, being the wood/metal hybrid that it is.

I have not heard/seen the HD800 but you can do great stuff with plastics. Only real complaint I've seen is that it is silvery... who cares? FWIR it sounds great and it can't be all black or people will complain about that...

If anything, I think the internet is making people spoiled.

 

[Pyriel0]

I thought the whole point of having a forum was to get BOTH the good and bad information about a product.

It seems lately if anyone says something negative about a product, they are called a whiner (by a more aggressive whiner lol). If no bad reviews or thoughts were discussed by people that have used a product, then there would be no point for this forum to exist since every product would be the best ever.