[doomlordis]

My Home set up is pretty basic, a CD63 , Rotel 04 amp , cambridge ipod dock , Sony 940 minidisc deck , speakers are Q Acoustic 1050i.
This weekend my friend brought around his new toys, a new dacmagic and a Azur 740c cd player.
We set them up in turn and had a nice long listen.
I was impressed with the 740c against my CD63 , it seemed to have more detail, not as warm.
The Dacmagic again impressed.
We decided to do a blind test to see if we could pick out the different sources, so we had the cd63 alone and the cd63 > dacmagic and the 940 minidisc(as a dac) , the 740c alone and out to the dacmagic/940.
We did the test using speakers and his Grados and my image x10s.
We used the same interconnects each time.

Result - i could identify the CD63 consistantly but i could not tell the difference between the 740c and the dacmagic / 940.

He couldnt identify any source consistantly.

We had had a few beers.

Makes me wonder if a lot of our reviews are biased by new toy syndrome etc?

 

[progo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomlordis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Makes me wonder if a lot of our reviews are biased by new toy syndrome etc?

... regarding DacMagic? Well don't 740c/840c/DacMagic all have the same DAC ships and similar sound signature? It just might be hard to tell the differences between these.

 

[PFKMan23]

The 740c and the DAC magic both use the same DAC chip, the Wolfson WM8740. The 840c uses the AD1955. That said the sound produced by a digital source is a combination of several factors including but not limited to, that dac chip, the digital filter, the power supply, the output stage and the I/V conversion (for current out dac chips).

 

[nick_charles]

It is also worth noting that CDPs and DACs can differ quite a lot in the analog output level. My Entech 203.2 DAC is a good .5V hotter than my Marantz CD player, this difference is easily audible in fast switching and gives the impression that the Entech is more dynamic i.e better. When you level match the differences are much harder to detect. Blind is good, blind and level matched is even better.

There are some interesting blind tests at Matrix-HiFi

 

[doomlordis]

the Dacmagic and the 740 use wolfson chips i believe, the Sony 940 uses some proprietery dac and my cd63 is a mk2 , not sure what dac , a philips maybe?
Anyway i can understand the dacmagic and 740 sounding similar but i use the Sony a lot and was surprised that i couldnt identify it.
Maybe its because i am used to listening to Atrac on it and when in use as a DAC it outputs PCM?

 

[whaleyboy]

FWIW, I have heard some pretty profound differences between sources.

Even shocking or surprising ones.

For example, a pal brought a Rega Apollo CD player to my house. We compared it (same cans, same interconnects, same power, same amp) to my Marantz 8260. We could immediately tell the difference between the two sources. The Marantz was superior - at least that day

. This was not the result that either of us expected.

 

[panda]

i believe that a lot of people do imagine things, it's placebo. they expect to hear differences and 'look' for those so their mind conjures up what they want to hear. i go in expecting to be let down so if i do notice something it's less likely that i imagined it, but i still keep it into consideration that it might just be me...

 

[powertoold]

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomlordis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Makes me wonder if a lot of our reviews are biased by new toy syndrome etc?

Yes, I say spend more money on headphones and amps. Sources are questionable IMO

Find a sound signature you like for cheap and stick with it!

 

[HiWire]

I agree with whaleyboy - I have heard some pretty profound, almost philosophical differences in the output of sources in my journeys.

 

[powertoold]

I don't doubt sources make a difference. It's just that it seems difficult to properly "match" them in the system. Some sources do more harm than good.

 

[tosehee]

I don't know. When I am little tired, I can't tell the difference apart from regular receiver to a $800 DAC that I am using. When I am on a good mood and perfect in condition, I can honestly say that DAC produces far better result.

Am I kidding myself..? Could be.. but I can't tell, and since this is hobby mainly for oneself only, I think I will just get along.

 

[krmathis]

I don't think you are.
Our ability to hear audible differences vary and so do sources.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif It is also worth noting that CDPs and DACs can differ quite a lot in the analog output level. My Entech 203.2 DAC is a good .5V hotter than my Marantz CD player, this difference is easily audible in fast switching and gives the impression that the Entech is more dynamic i.e better. When you level match the differences are much harder to detect. Blind is good, blind and level matched is even better. There are some interesting blind tests at Matrix-HiFi

This.

If you carefully level match digital sources, they become increasingly difficult to tell apart.

Check the output on your sources. You'll see that they put out different levels of power, sometimes the impedance varies, as well. Even if you use the same amp and headphones without touching the volume knob they'll sound different. That's because if you're getting slightly more input power from one source, it'll generally sound "better" than the other one.

That's the difference most people rave about here - you rarely see them do a proper level match. It's always just swapping gear in and out without measurements.

If the sources are matched, considering the output variations, the differences become increasingly small.

Analog is different - vinyl is a physical medium, so the difference between cartridges and other items is noticeable.

 

[Spareribs]

I've compared the Bel Canto DAC with the Denon 2910 and noticed that the Bel Canto had the extra edge of definition. IMO, it's generally worth spending the extra money on a good digital source but that's just me.