[Piffles]

Hello fellas,

I've been hesitating over what headphones to buy for a while. I travel a lot so, even though I'm very keen on quality sound, I have to keep my setup mobile. At the moment, I use a laptop with an M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB interface. I tend to live in places where I can't set up a pair of speakers so I have to settle for headphones at the moment.

I intend to drive these directly from the Fast Track Pro. the D/A conversion within the card is quite good (very hard to spot a difference between that and a Marantz CD67-SE CD player) but I suspect the headphone output isn't all that powerful. Definitely better than any portable device or onboard soundcard, but no substitute for a headphone amplifier (it says compatible 32 - 600 ohms but I guess they all say that).

Anyhow, so far, I have no intention of buying an amp. Therefore, I was wondering: when used without an amp, would high quality headphones (like the Sennheiser HD-580) sound any better than lower quality but lower impedance headphones?

I ask because I can't find any highly-rated yet efficient headphones. The HD-580 are 300 Ohms, and the AKG K501 are reputed to need solid amplification to sound any good. The Grados are slightly more efficient but they are out of the question for me because they just don't stay on my head. I intend to do some recording with them, so comfort is an important factor. Being fully-open is not a problem however: I can just put some foam around them to stop them bleeding too much in really sensitive situations like I have done in the past. But I'll be using them mostly for playback.

The only efficient headphones I've found (excluding the Grados) are the AKG K240 Studio but they are quite a lot cheaper than the Senns. Would the Sennheiser HD-580 sound better than those even without proper amplification?

Any clues greatly appreciated!

See you around,
Piffles.

 

[catscratch]

The HD580 would sound better than cheap department store headphones unamped, but I don't think you're quite correct in saying that there are no high-end headphones that are also easy to drive. The 50 ohm version of the Sennheiser HD595 is quite close to the HD580 in performance, but can be driven far more easily by mp3 players and such. There are many Audio-Technica models, starting with the A500 and ending with the uber-expensive L3000 that are fairly easy to drive without amplification, and yet still sound good.

Look around, and you'll find good easy-to-drive cans. I think that the 580 is a waste unamped, but it's not your only choice. If, OTOH you want to get an amped system, then the 580 is the best bang for the buck, period (in dynamic headphones).

Some ideas as to what to look at:

Sennheiser HD555 and HD595 50 ohm version; Audio-Technica ATH-A500, A900; Beyerdynamic DT880 32 ohm version, Alessandro MS-1.

 

[Piffles]

Thanks for the quick answer, catscratch.

Most helpful advice I've had since the beginning of my search. I didn't know about the 595s and the 555s. Everyone went straight for the 580s when I mentionned Senn. But yeah, I'm very impressed by the reviews I've read on the 595s so far - they're pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks a bunch!

Piffles.

 

[arto]

Beyerdynamic produce 32 ohm versions of all their top cans (the 770 and 990 as well as the 880). AFAIK they're only available from Beyerdynamic and from Meier Audio (Head-Fi sponsor). I run a 32 ohm 770 from my Echo Gina3G soundcard and it sounds fine. Great, in fact. I also have a Marantz CD67-SE, and it runs pretty loud on about 4 segments of volume on that (I guess you know what I mean). In other words, about the same or slightly quieter than my Grado SR125.

 

[HFat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piffles I suspect the headphone output isn't all that powerful. Definitely better than any portable device or onboard soundcard, but no substitute for a headphone amplifier

If what you say is true, you shouldn't have any problems driving headphones reasonably well, except some oldies and of course electrostats. Then again, what you say is probably not true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piffles The only efficient headphones I've found (excluding the Grados) are the AKG K240 Studio but they are quite a lot cheaper than the Senns. Would the Sennheiser HD-580 sound better than those even without proper amplification?

The HD580s are a good bit more efficient actually... it seems you have fallen for the usual head-fi misinformation.

Here's my clue: stop worrying about this stuff and get something with a sound signature you think you'll like. If you're ready to spend a couple hundred euros, you can get quality headphones for sure... but you might not like the sonic characteristics of all the good phones on the market. I hope you can audition several models or that you can afford a small collection!

 

[phergus_25]

why not get an amp? a PA2V2 is 60 shipped. Now that I have heard the +s of amplification I don't plan on listining without one.

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phergus_25 why not get an amp? a PA2V2 is 60 shipped. Now that I have heard the +s of amplification I don't plan on listining without one.

edit: oops, got so focused on the cd-player comparison, I neglected to deal with the M-Audio! Anyway,

Yeah, but who's to say that the stock opamp in the Marantz is any less good than the LM4881 in the pa2v2, the caps any smaller, etc.? Marantz has generally used passable equipment on the amps behind its headphone outs, and I don't think that a portable battery-powered amp will be an improvement over the wall-powered Marantz.

There's nothing unusual in the headphone out of a piece of mid or hi-fi equipment being comparable to a cheap dedicated headphone amp, and better than a soundcard or an mp3 player. After all, nobody thought they needed dedicated amps at all until computers and walkmen came around. I don't know the OP's Marantz model, but if it is as he describes, it can drive any of these headphones without a problem, even the K501. Of course a better amp will make them sound better, but that's the same for any kind of speaker, headphone or full-sized.

 

[granodemostasa]

the M-Audio isn't necessarily unamped, at least not the way an ipod or laptop line out is unamped. I've run my 650s from that thing before and it didn't sound bad.... but the musical body and PRAT isn't quite there either. but it certainly doesn't sound as bad as running it from an ipod. I've found it works rather well with the 595 and HF1 though.

 

[Piffles]

Thanks for your comments guys. You seem to know your stuff.

I think I'll use my dad as a "beta tester": the Marantz CD67-SE is his and he wants some headphones. I'll make him get the 580s or 600s and I'll try them out on the M-Audio on the occasion. I've heard the 580s with a very good amp (Vincent something or other) in a shop, so I'll be able to compare: through amp - directly from marantz - from m-audio. My dad is nutty enough not to mind buying an amp if it turns out they don't sound too good straight from the Marantz. Then I'll know if I really need something easy-to-drive for my M-Audio.

Thanks again for your help!
Piffles.

 

[amartignano]

Imho there's nothing best than Grado for unamped listening (and then when you amp them well: WOW!

)

Andrew

 

[SAP7]

Grados are great wiithout an amp... you'll be pushed to get someone who disagrees.
But, buy a used amp here cheap and see the difference. I don't think wqe'd be having this conversation if you had heard the benefit of one!

 

[TooNice]

Yea, I agree Grado work well unamped.

An amp is nice, but I would go with a decent source first.

 

[sango]

Audio Technica cans are pretty easy to drive.

 

[F107plus5]

Amps are like bacteria.

There are benificial varieties as well as evil ones, they all can be infectious.

I am trying to avoid them all!

Not only do I not wish to catch the bug, but the hassle of living with the illness can be worse than simply taking pills.

I mean: cables and wires and boxes and batteries and connections and added complexity of assembling and dissassembling when on the move and setting back up. It's like being in intensive care!!

Gives me a tummy ache just thinking about it!

I have high efficency MS-1s that put no excessive load on any of my sources, and I'm not sure that amplifying my one poor source will give me anything more than a louder poor source!

My next, and probably "final" phones will likely be MS2 and they are also not "top of the range" so I may be talking off topic here. But still, the hassle and complexity of adding a bunch of stuff that may or may not add an appreciable benifit in SQ is a daunting proposition!

"Synergy" is great, but to get Synergy, you need to plow through dozens or perhaps hundreds of different combinations, each of which may blow the whole system right out of the water if a wrong decision is made!!

I think my wallet would need a transfusion.

 

[augustwest]

"Are top of the range headphones worth the investment if used without an amp?"

This is an excellent question, and a question that more should ask themselves before laying down their hard earned money on "top of the line" phones.

. . . . .the answers is, NO


- augustwest