[markl]

IMO, buying a $150 aftermarket replacement cable for a headphone you don't like in the first place is throwing good money after bad. IMO, FWIW, the aftermarket cables are really only for people who already love the Senn basic house sound, not for people looking to make a silk purse out of what to them is a sow's ear. No upgrade cable is going to presto-change-o make the Senns sound like an entirely different pair of cans, they will simply make the sound just that much more enjoyable for people who already like them. Nor will burn-in have the same utterly transformational impact on the sound, it's much more subtle than that.

I agree with those who say it's time to look into another pair of cans. Based on your description, you may want to read up on the Sony CD3000.

Good luck!

 

[GlowWorm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl IMO, buying a $150 aftermarket replacement cable for a headphone you don't like in the first place is throwing good money after bad. IMO, FWIW, the aftermarket cables are really only for people who already love the Senn basic house sound, not for people looking to make a silk purse out of what to them is a sow's ear. No upgrade cable is going to presto-change-o make the Senns sound like an entirely different pair of cans, they will simply make the sound just that much more enjoyable for people who already like them. Nor will burn-in have the same utterly transformational impact on the sound, it's much more subtle than that. I agree with those who say it's time to look into another pair of cans. Based on your description, you may want to read up on the Sony CD3000. Good luck!

I don't argue your point markl, if you don't like the stock HD650 I doubt if an aftermarket cable will give you the sound your going for. You would probably be happier with a headphone with a more aggressive sound. You might want to consider something in the Grado line, or like markl suggests the CD3000.

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl IMO, buying a $150 aftermarket replacement cable for a headphone you don't like in the first place is throwing good money after bad. IMO, FWIW, the aftermarket cables are really only for people who already love the Senn basic house sound, not for people looking to make a silk purse out of what to them is a sow's ear. No upgrade cable is going to presto-change-o make the Senns sound like an entirely different pair of cans, they will simply make the sound just that much more enjoyable for people who already like them. Nor will burn-in have the same utterly transformational impact on the sound, it's much more subtle than that.

Very well said !! =)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chia-pet sorry if i wasn't clear; my brand new senn hd650s sound 200% better--before burn in--than my year-old, burned-in ultrasone hfi650 trackmasters.

I wasn't clear either as I addressed the original poster and was too much to edit when I realized he had hfi 550. I listened to both 650s brand new out of the box and liked the senn 650% better. =)

 

[Skarecrow]

The 650 burn in is a long, LOOOONG process. I thought mine was done at 200 hours, but It's got a smoothness and "fatness of sound" now when I pick it up (must have 400-500 hours on it now) that I am not sure I remember from the ~200 mark.

I will agree that past about the first 10-20 hours, it's sound goes completely to **** for about the next 75 hours. Why, I have no idea. the 650s really made me a believer in burn-in (and my new MS-1s are doing the same thing, although they seem to keep getting better).

That's not to say that the 650 really changes THAT much after the 200 hour mark. It's very subtle. If you don't like the sound now, I doubt you're going to. However, I'm curious how many listening hours you have on the phones (not how many burn-in hours)? What someone said about giving your ears time to adjust to the senn sound is correct. I'm finding that the longer I wear my MS-1s, the more my ears are adjusting to the grado sound and I appreciate what the cans can do that my senns can't more and more... although to be honest I still keep wanting to put my Senns back on.

 

[Earwax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vforrest I just bought a set of Sennheiser HD650 headphones. I played them continuously for a week to burn them in. They sound very laid back, with recessed midrange and rolled off highs. Bass is strong but not detailed. I used amps by Headroom and Lehmann Audio, as well as the headphone jack on an HHB CDR 850 CD recorder. All sound the same. All these amps sound fine with Ultrasone HFI-550 headphones. Plenty of highs, clear midrange, and detailed bass. Can I do anything to make the Sennheisers listenable? More burn-in, different cables?

vforrest,
this is something that almost seems too simple to need mentioning, but take a look at my thread over here and see if this might help a bit.

 

[dknightd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vforrest I just bought a set of Sennheiser HD650 headphones. I played them continuously for a week to burn them in. They sound very laid back, with recessed midrange and rolled off highs. Bass is strong but not detailed. I used amps by Headroom and Lehmann Audio, as well as the headphone jack on an HHB CDR 850 CD recorder. All sound the same. All these amps sound fine with Ultrasone HFI-550 headphones. Plenty of highs, clear midrange, and detailed bass. Can I do anything to make the Sennheisers listenable? More burn-in, different cables?

I can understand the comment about recessed midrange and rolled off highs. The Senn 650 is, for lack of a better word, polite. Some people prefer a more agressive sounding can. You might one of those people.

You don't specify which headroom or Lehmann amps you are using, but they are both reputable companies with should have no problem giving the hd-650 a decent signal. Sounds like Senn cans are just not you cup of tea (or in my case, pint of beer)

I'm a little puzzled that you don't find the bass detailed. I've never listened to the Ultrasone HFI-550, maybe they have tighter better defined bass? To my ear the bass of 650 is about as accurate and detailed as you can get, it does seem to miss the slam, but I'm hoping that will come with more use.

I've only had my Senn 650 for a couple of days. They have been playing music that whole time at my normal listening levels. I've probably listened to them about 8 hours during that time. My impression so far is that they are very polite, yet detailed, cans. I think I am going to like them. Sounds like you do not. Right now I am in my second stage of breakin - music playing loud through headphones (under a pillow) and at moderate volume through speakers. I like to use music to break in my cans, and after a gentle period, playing it at higher than normal volumes seems to help break them in a little faster. It could be that the hd650 needs longer to loosen up than some other cans, I don't know yet.

My guess is that if after a week you are not happy with these cans it is time to move on. Changing cables or amplifier will tweek the sound but not likely change the basic character. Like I said above, perhaps Sens are not for you. You might give them another week or two then either return them or sell them.

 

[Old Pa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vforrest I just bought a set of Sennheiser HD650 headphones. I played them continuously for a week to burn them in. They sound very laid back, with recessed midrange and rolled off highs. Bass is strong but not detailed. I used amps by Headroom and Lehmann Audio, as well as the headphone jack on an HHB CDR 850 CD recorder. All sound the same. All these amps sound fine with Ultrasone HFI-550 headphones. Plenty of highs, clear midrange, and detailed bass.

Zu-ed HD650s have remained my favorite can for almost a year now. Perhaps you recieved a defective sample. Did you buy them new or used? Could they have been damaged by someone else or during the burn-in process by too high playing levels? Since your other cans sound good to you, that probably eliminates any source/interconnect/amp problems. Trying another pair as suggested earlier seems the best advice.

 

[bangraman]

vforrest, you have described the basic character of the phones in a nutshell so I doubt they're broken. And clearly you've driven them properly. I've owned a lot of phones and I think they're pretty good myself, although not to the delusional heights mentioned by some on this board.


Perhaps you're just not a Senn Guy, perhaps your ears aren't that trained, or perhaps your source isn't that revealing... leaving you to feel that the technical performance is the same as lesser phones.

 

[CRESCENDOPOWER]

Quote:

I've owned a lot of phones and I think they're pretty good myself, although not to the delusional heights mentioned by some on this board.

Same can be said about the Stax Omega II. The HD-650 with upgraded cables, and, "quality equipment" behind them is the end all, be all headphone system for me, and no other headphone I have heard sounds closer to a pair of high-end dynamic speakers like the HD-650s. See how opinions can vary.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRESCENDOPOWER Same can be said about the Stax Omega II. The HD-650 with upgraded cables, and, "quality equipment" behind them is the end all, be all headphone system for me, and no other headphone I have heard sounds closer to a pair of high-end dynamic speakers like the HD-650s. See how opinions can vary.

Not really when you've used both out of the same high-end systems. The Stax is not an improvement in line with the relative spend with low-end systems, but it is nevertheless a significant improvement that establishes a bigger gap the better you get. Furthermore the more you spend on an HD650 amp, the more the two become roughly equal in spend, so relatively speaking the Stax becomes 'better value'. See how experience can vary.

Sorry for the edit. You should know I never leave posts unedited

 

[CRESCENDOPOWER]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman See how experience can vary.

Yeah, I know I don't have the expertise you do,

but one thing I have learned over the years is that there is not one transducer that does it all, and that would included the Stax Omega II. I am sorry for being so misinformed, and I promises I won’t get out of line like that anymore.

I guess post count really does count for something after all!

 

[martindemon]

I can't compare the Sennheiser with other headphones because I never heard the HD650. But I did try the Grado SR325 and they are my present possible choice because they sound fantastic to my taste! I already have some Denon AH-D950 and they are also quite good (cost me 190$) but when I heard the grado, it was really like hearing sound from inside a room vs sound outside the room with door opened. I could not use my Denon headphone for 1 week after that traumatic event

Perhaps your taste is like mine? Try a Grado SR225 or SR325.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl IMO, buying a $150 aftermarket replacement cable for a headphone you don't like in the first place is throwing good money after bad. IMO, FWIW, the aftermarket cables are really only for people who already love the Senn basic house sound, not for people looking to make a silk purse out of what to them is a sow's ear. No upgrade cable is going to presto-change-o make the Senns sound like an entirely different pair of cans, they will simply make the sound just that much more enjoyable for people who already like them. Nor will burn-in have the same utterly transformational impact on the sound, it's much more subtle than that. I agree with those who say it's time to look into another pair of cans. Based on your description, you may want to read up on the Sony CD3000. Good luck!

Ditto here, time for a CD3000 try......BTW I have heard it, a fully broken in HD650 with an aftermarket a cable, and I have exactly these same impressions, rolled off eveything, and still too laid back for my taste.

 

[vforrest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFerrier Do you find this true for *every* CD you listen to? Does anything sound "unveiled"? JF

Unfortunately, everything does sound that way.

 

[vforrest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ What is your normal source? I suspect the issue might have to do with it. Did you play it really loud during break-in, with lots of bass? The HD 650 takes quite a long time to sound «right». Did you try stretching the headband for looser grip? The tight grip in the beginning makes the sound dark and bass-heavy, so parallel to driver break-in the headband will break in. An aftermarket cable (...Zu Mobius...) will help with improving clarity and definition, but probably not enough to overcome the heavy sonic issues you're describing. And finally the HD 650 isn't for everyone. Maybe you're used to a bright, forward sound. You could try to adapt yourself to the different sonic presentation. It's worth it. If nothing of the above helps, sell it! There are a lot of potential buyers around.

Thanks for your suggestion. My current source is a Meridian 508.24 CD player and a Bel Canto PRe2P preamp. I played the Senns at normal listening level during break-in.

I'm comparing the sound of the Senns mostly to the sound I hear from most speakers. I don't think they are all bright and forward. There is a severe information loss with the Senns. I'll try the headband adjustment you suggested.