[sfdoddsy]

My regular speakers are full range dynamic dipoles. If open backed phones radiate front and back, would that make them kind of dipoles too?

Just wondering.

Steve

 

[zzz]

yes. you don't have to worry about the room interactions and LF self-cancelling nearly as much though.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by sfdoddsy My regular speakers are full range dynamic dipoles. If open backed phones radiate front and back, would that make them kind of dipoles too? Just wondering. Steve

Yes. So? I hate dipoles for home use. The sound slaps around the back of the room. Voices come from the front of the body(!) and instruments project their sound from one side too, generally speaking.

 

[sfdoddsy]

Ah, we can agree to differ. I love dipoles.

Steve

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by sfdoddsy Ah, we can agree to differ. I love dipoles. Steve

WHY/why DO/do YOU/you LIKE/like DI/di POLES/poles?

 

[JaZZ]

Some of the open headphones are dipoles (K 1000, MDR-F1, HD 600...), some are half-dipoles (open or «semi-open» Beyerdynamics...), because there is some acoustic resistance in the form of dense fabric or the like acting as a semi-transparent baffle (the HD 600 actually is a border case with its highly sound-permeable foam pads), and some are nominally open, but no dipoles in the classical sense (Stax, Grados, Portapros, K 501...), because the backside of the membrane is completely separated from the frontside.

I wouldn't put too much weight on the dipole issue with headphones though. One of the benefits of speakers from the dipole principle, the reduced excitation of standing waves in the listening room, isn't reproducable with headphones. The open back is a clear advantage though, because it prevents reflexions from the inside of the can, comparable to speaker cabinets.

 

[Zanth]

Mike...I feel an attack coming on and sfdoddsy is trying to diffuse it before it begins. The original topic was not about whether anyone likes dipoles or not...just whether the phones are or not. Then you pipe in with So? and go on a little...I hate 'em because rant. Next you start your YELLING/baited controled question.

Let's keep this thread on topic and let's keep the flame wars away from here. No more electrostatic/dynamic fiascos.

 

[JohnSmith]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti WHY/why DO/do YOU/you LIKE/like DI/di POLES/poles?

bwhahaha!

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally posted by Zanth Mike...I feel an attack coming on and sfdoddsy is trying to diffuse it before it begins. The original topic was not about whether anyone likes dipoles or not...just whether the phones are or not. Then you pipe in with So? and go on a little...I hate 'em because rant. Next you start your YELLING/baited controled question. Let's keep this thread on topic and let's keep the flame wars away from here. No more electrostatic/dynamic fiascos.

[size=xx-small]Shhhhhhhh, don't feed the troll...[/size]

 

[sfdoddsy]

Zanth is correct. I just like to know how things work.

If anyone wants to know more about why I like dipoles for normal speakers, my signature link has enough information to bore anyone silly, or check www.linkwitzlab.com.

That said, one of the nice thing about open baffle speakers is the lack of cabinet colouration, and I would assume this is also true of open headphones, just in miniature.

And from persuing many threads here (great site BTW) the most open sounding headphones also seem to be the most physically open, Grado, for example.


Steve

 

[JaZZ]

Nice-looking speakers – great design work!

 

[JKohn]

open-backed heaphones/speakers != dipole. Dipole speakers actually have forward and backwards-firing drivers, that are operating out of phase with each other. This produces a "null" area where if you are facing such that the drivers are firing perpendicular to you (ie left and right), you'll get a very diffuse soundstage. This configuration is rarely used for main speakers, but is often used for surround speakers.

There are also bipolar speakers, which have forward and back-firing drivers that are _not_ out of phase. These don't have the "null" area like dipoles do, and are intended to have the front firing drivers aimed towards you with the back-firing drivers facing away (usually toward a wall). This configuration doesn't produce as diffuse of a sound as dipolar speakers, but it can give you a larger, more enveloping sound (at the cost of being less focused with regard to imaging).

If a headphone only has one driver per ear, it's not a dipole regardless of whether it's open/closed.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by Zanth Mike...I feel an attack coming on and sfdoddsy is trying to diffuse it before it begins. The original topic was not about whether anyone likes dipoles or not...just whether the phones are or not. Then you pipe in with So? and go on a little...I hate 'em because rant. Next you start your YELLING/baited controled question. Let's keep this thread on topic and let's keep the flame wars away from here. No more electrostatic/dynamic fiascos.

I wasn't yelling. You obviously didn't get it. That (DO/do) was an attempt to mimic the sound/echo effect of dipoles in a room. I should also point out that the EFFECT of a dipole in a room cannot occur in headphones, which is the reason for the "So?". Yes, some headphones have an open back (and are thus technically "dipoles"), and so what? That has nothing like the effect of a dipole speaker such as a magnepan, which is I guess a nice way of saying the question should have been...reflected on before being asked. (Pun intended)

 

[elnero]

Damnit Zanth, now look what you've gone and done...

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by JKohn open-backed heaphones/speakers != dipole. Dipole speakers actually have forward and backwards-firing drivers, that are operating out of phase with each other. This produces a "null" area where if you are facing such that the drivers are firing perpendicular to you (ie left and right), you'll get a very diffuse soundstage. This configuration is rarely used for main speakers, but is often used for surround speakers. There are also bipolar speakers, which have forward and back-firing drivers that are _not_ out of phase. These don't have the "null" area like dipoles do, and are intended to have the front firing drivers aimed towards you with the back-firing drivers facing away (usually toward a wall). This configuration doesn't produce as diffuse of a sound as dipolar speakers, but it can give you a larger, more enveloping sound (at the cost of being less focused with regard to imaging). If a headphone only has one driver per ear, it's not a dipole regardless of whether it's open/closed.

This is incorrect. A Magnapan has a single plane of drivers which vibrate sending sound from both sides. A box speaker traps the back wave. In a dipole, the back wave is equal to the front wave, and it bounces off the rear walls, creating an annoying effect.