[Music Alchemist]

The general consensus in Sound Science is that any properly-designed DAC (even the cheap ones in computers) will reproduce audio perfectly. I am considering selling my audio gear to fund an entry-level electrostatic system. My existing headphones sound fine directly out of my laptop's (Alienware M11x R2) headphone jacks, except the piezoelectric ones, which require a ton of power. So when I get the electrostatic headphones and electrostatic headphone amp, would there be no improvement in sound quality by using an external DAC as opposed to connecting the amp to my computer with the right cables? (I may sell my external DAC either way.)

 

[dprimary]

You just have to find a computer with a properly designed DAC. Good luck.
 
The main problem is unless somehow the output circuits can be switched between driving headphones and driving a line input, they will never interface properly to both. Some computers sound good some sound so bad I have been minutes away from tearing apart whole sound systems before I switched to a different source and found the problem was the computer.
 
The DAC on laptops vary widely some are fairly good some are down right horrible. If you don't hear difference then you don't need it.
Apple seems to be constantly good, Dell has been all over the place in the past seems to be good now, HP and Lenovo seems ok as well.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Yeah, I don't really hear a difference between plugging into my laptop's headphone jack and using my Schiit stack (Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2) with all of my headphones except for the piezoelectric ones, which barely get loud enough even on maximum volume from my amp. So I guess I may not need to keep my DAC, even once I get the electrostatic headphones and amp...though I'm still interested in trying out various DACs just to make sure.

 

[KamijoIsMyHero]

Which headphones are piezoelectric?

If you can afford to have electrostatic headphones why not just invest in a simple dac such as the modi? It is affordable and there is barely any question as to what it can and cannot do.

 

[manbear]

The most scientific approach is to see for yourself once you get th3 electrostats.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Which headphones are piezoelectric?

If you can afford to have electrostatic headphones why not just invest in a simple dac such as the modi? It is affordable and there is barely any question as to what it can and cannot do.

 
Pioneer SE-300 -- an extremely rare piezoelectric headphone from the 1970s.
 
Look at my signature. I already own the Schiit Modi 2. And as stated, I do not hear a difference between my Schiit stack and plugging into my laptop's headphone jack. So I'm thinking even if I could make enough to get the 'stat system and keep my DAC, I may not hear a difference with or without the DAC.

 

[RRod]

  The general consensus in Sound Science is that any properly-designed DAC (even the cheap ones in computers) will reproduce audio perfectly. I am considering selling my audio gear to fund an entry-level electrostatic system. My existing headphones sound fine directly out of my laptop's (Alienware M11x R2) headphone jacks, except the piezoelectric ones, which require a ton of power. So when I get the electrostatic headphones and electrostatic headphone amp, would there be no improvement in sound quality by using an external DAC as opposed to connecting the amp to my computer with the right cables? (I may sell my external DAC either way.)

 
From what I glean from specs, the M11x R2 uses an Intel HD audio codec, which means that you should be able to re-task the jacks (like change a headphone-out to a line-out). If Windows lets you do this I have no idea, but I do it on my Ubuntu laptop and it works like a charm.

 

[KamijoIsMyHero]

   
Pioneer SE-300 -- an extremely rare piezoelectric headphone from the 1970s.
 
Look at my signature. I already own the Schiit Modi 2. And as stated, I do not hear a difference between my Schiit stack and plugging into my laptop's headphone jack. So I'm thinking even if I could make enough to get the 'stat system and keep my DAC, I may not hear a difference with or without the DAC.

 
I would keep your DAC just because you already have a good product at hand. There is nothing worse than selling something then missing it later on. Also since you are using a laptop for audio, it isn't like you can strip out the soundcard and use it on another computer. Having an external dac allows you to have something transportable if and when you decide you need an upgrade computer wise. As an audiophile it just doesn't make sense to not have something dedicated with such expensive headphones.

 

[castleofargh]

  The general consensus in Sound Science is that any properly-designed DAC (even the cheap ones in computers) will reproduce audio perfectly. I am considering selling my audio gear to fund an entry-level electrostatic system. My existing headphones sound fine directly out of my laptop's (Alienware M11x R2) headphone jacks, except the piezoelectric ones, which require a ton of power. So when I get the electrostatic headphones and electrostatic headphone amp, would there be no improvement in sound quality by using an external DAC as opposed to connecting the amp to my computer with the right cables? (I may sell my external DAC either way.)

just to avoid some exaggerated ideas, there is no consensus saying DACs reproduce audio perfectly. nobody ever said that.
and perfection is only a math thing, or how our mothers imagine we are.
1/ we tend to talk about audibility by humans, not sound reproduction.
2/ there is a consensus not to bother with DACs because everything else in the audio chain is much worst at reproducing said audio signal. so it seems logical to concentrate on what is really bad, not on how to improve meaninglessly something that is already pretty darn good.
 
now as it's been said, it's for you so just listen to your DAC and soundcard and decide for yourself. you won't get reassured about your choices by headfi, there will always be somebody telling that you're wrong and need a 5000$ DAC ^_^.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I would keep your DAC just because you already have a good product at hand. There is nothing worse than selling something then missing it later on. Also since you are using a laptop for audio, it isn't like you can strip out the soundcard and use it on another computer. Having an external dac allows you to have something transportable if and when you decide you need an upgrade computer wise. As an audiophile it just doesn't make sense to not have something dedicated with such expensive headphones.

 
I hear no difference with or without it. Why would I keep it?
 
There is nothing worse than having a dedicated device that does nothing to improve sound quality. As an audiophile, it just doesn't make sense.

 
If I upgrade my computer, it would be superior in every way anyway.
 
And I can always get more DACs in the future. I intend on comparing expensive and cheap ones someday.
 

  just to avoid some exaggerated ideas, there is no consensus saying DACs reproduce audio perfectly. nobody ever said that.
and perfection is only a math thing, or how our mothers imagine we are.
1/ we tend to talk about audibility by humans, not sound reproduction.
2/ there is a consensus not to bother with DACs because everything else in the audio chain is much worst at reproducing said audio signal. so it seems logical to concentrate on what is really bad, not on how to improve meaninglessly something that is already pretty darn good.
 
now as it's been said, it's for you so just listen to your DAC and soundcard and decide for yourself. you won't get reassured about your choices by headfi, there will always be somebody telling that you're wrong and need a 5000$ DAC ^_^.

 
It may not reproduce the data perfectly, but if it is audibly transparent, then it reproduces the audio perfectly.

 

[manbear]

Depends on how you define audibly transparent. If your standard is simply not hearing a difference, then every component in your chain (aside from the weakest link) could be considered audibly transparent.

For example, suppose your headphones are the weakest link. Apple earbuds might sound the same from a phone as from a desktop DAC/amp, but that doesnt really mean the phone is transparent (IMO)... I think of transparency as invariant with respect to supporting equipment. If a more resolving headphone shows a difference between the phone and the desktop system, then the phone really isnt transparent.

Anyway, the point is that your future electrostatic setup will probably be more resolving than your current headphones. Maybe you still won't hear a difference between DACs with the stats. That's fine; I'm not saying you will. My point is just that it's useless to extrapolate using your current setup (because not hearing a difference with your current setup doesn't necessarily imply true transparency).

 

[Music Alchemist]

Depends on how you define audibly transparent. If your standard is simply not hearing a difference, then every component in your chain (aside from the weakest link) could be considered audibly transparent.

For example, suppose your headphones are the weakest link. Apple earbuds might sound the same from a phone as from a desktop DAC/amp, but that doesnt really mean the phone is transparent (IMO)... I think of transparency as invariant with respect to supporting equipment. If a more resolving headphone shows a difference between the phone and the desktop system, then the phone really isnt transparent.

Anyway, the point is that your future electrostatic setup will probably be more resolving than your current headphones. Maybe you still won't hear a difference between DACs with the stats. That's fine; I'm not saying you will. My point is just that it's useless to extrapolate using your current setup (because not hearing a difference with your current setup doesn't necessarily imply true transparency).

 
Yeah, that's true. But I'll probably need to sell all my gear to afford the electrostat system. I can always get more DACs in the future.

 

[manbear]

Yeah, that's true. But I'll probably need to sell all my gear to afford the electrostat system. I can always get more DACs in the future.

Ahh, I see. You want to put the DAC money towards the stats... IDK how tight your budget is, but you could try comparing the Modi and soundcard with the stats before selling it. That way, once you sell it, you wont have any lingering doubts about whether the sound card is good enough (assuming you don't hear a difference )

My personal speculation is that you'll be fine with the soundcard. I barely hear a difference between the line out of my Fiio X1 and my desktop DAC. Then again, the best headphone I've used to compare is the HE-400i... What stats are you getting?

 

[Music Alchemist]

Ahh, I see. You want to put the DAC money towards the stats... IDK how tight your budget is, but you could try comparing the Modi and soundcard with the stats before selling it. That way, once you sell it, you wont have any lingering doubts about whether the sound card is good enough (assuming you don't hear a difference

)

My personal speculation is that you'll be fine with the soundcard. I barely hear a difference between the line out of my Fiio X1 and my desktop DAC. Then again, the best headphone I've used to compare is the HE-400i... What stats are you getting?

 
STAX SR-207 headphones and STAX SRM-252S amp. (Some people say the SR-207 is 90% as good as the SR-009.)
 
I can import them from Japan for under $400 instead of the $790 US retail price.
 
I would like to get the SR-009 and many other high-end headphones, but that won't happen until later.

 

[bigshot]

Depends on how you define audibly transparent. If your standard is simply not hearing a difference, then every component in your chain (aside from the weakest link) could be considered audibly transparent.

 
Audibly transparent is specs that exceed the thresholds of human hearing. If a player is audibly transparent, you could plug in the best headphones in the world and it would be exactly the same sound as any other player that is audibly transparent, even if the specs are better on one than the other.