[purrin]

I think DAC is 2nd most important for easier to drive headphones (most Grados, Beyers), where amp is 2nd most important for difficult to drive or picky headphones (HD650, K701, GS1000).

 

[tonsosnot]

Team Source First.
 
I hear a much larger difference jumping from a $100 DAC (uDac) to a $300 DAC (Gamma 2) than moving from a $200 amp (Little Dot MkIII) to a $500 amp (M^3). That's not to say that the amp doesn't make a difference in the chain, because it definitely does. To purrin's point above, a harder to drive headphone will definitely benefit from decent amplification if you have don't have any. But once driven to a sufficient level, I think you get much better gains from upgrading the source. The saying is tacky, but I've become a firm believer in "garbage in, garbage out."

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

I feel that DACs are the 2nd most important component after headphones as well.  From my experience, all the DACs I've tried made all my headphones sound better but that's not the case with trying different headphone amps.

 
Quote:

Team Source First.
 
I hear a much larger difference jumping from a $100 DAC (uDac) to a $300 DAC (Gamma 2) than moving from a $200 amp (Little Dot MkIII) to a $500 amp (M^3). That's not to say that the amp doesn't make a difference in the chain, because it definitely does. To purrin's point above, a harder to drive headphone will definitely benefit from decent amplification if you have don't have any. But once driven to a sufficient level, I think you get much better gains from upgrading the source. The saying is tacky, but I've become a firm believer in "garbage in, garbage out."

 
x2
 

 

[Stylus_K]

Quote:

Team Source First.
 
I hear a much larger difference jumping from a $100 DAC (uDac) to a $300 DAC (Gamma 2) than moving from a $200 amp (Little Dot MkIII) to a $500 amp (M^3). That's not to say that the amp doesn't make a difference in the chain, because it definitely does. To purrin's point above, a harder to drive headphone will definitely benefit from decent amplification if you have don't have any. But once driven to a sufficient level, I think you get much better gains from upgrading the source. The saying is tacky, but I've become a firm believer in "garbage in, garbage out."

 
Agreed.
 
The Amp can only modify the signal. What info is lost at the Source stage you can't get back.
Do a back to back with your portable source and any decent CD player (which will usually have a pretty decent DAC in it).
 
Source = 1st Priority,
Then Speakers and Amplification in equal 2nd
 

 

[champ]

I used to think amps are more important than DACS until I bought a DAC. I never realized how artificial the piano sounded till I heard it through a DAC--as Currawong said the instruments sound more natural. 
 
After buying my DAC, I switched from a $600 amp to a $2700 amp--the change was not as jaw-dropping or as big a jump as when I bought a DAC.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

I used to think amps are more important than DACS until I bought a DAC. I never realized how artificial the piano sounded till I heard it through a DAC--as Currawong said the instruments sound more natural. 

You mean a "standalone DAC".  Any time you are listening to digital audio, it goes through a DAC, whether it's on a soundcard or in your iPod.  The digital must be converted to analog, hence the word DAC (Digital to Analog converter).

 

[Roasty]

would it be worth it to run something like this?
 
emu-0404 -> DAC -> Meier Headfive -> HD650
 
at the moment i dont have a DAC and am curious if it will change the sound.

 

[angle_sh00ter]

You do have a DAC - it's in the 0404 and also in your 640C.  With the HD650 I'd probably opt to upgrade the amp before the DAC but every1 hears sound differently.

 

[Roasty]

oops i meant a dedicated standalone DAC. would it be an audible difference if i used the digital out on the emu to connect to an external DAC?

 

[Currawong]

I don't imagine that the Headfive will be resolving enough for a DAC greater than the 0404, so I wouldn't bother personally.

 

[angle_sh00ter]

Yeah that's what I was beating around the bush trying to say
 
Quote:

I don't imagine that the Headfive will be resolving enough for a DAC greater than the 0404

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

I don't imagine that the Headfive will be resolving enough for a DAC greater than the 0404, so I wouldn't bother personally.

You know that's not true.  It's not only about detail but the timbre of the instruments as well.  I doesn't matter what the quality of your amp is (unless it has severe distortion), you can always (at least I can) hear differences in some areas between DACs.

 

[wgb113]

To the OP, some DACs in the sub-$1000 category new with optical inputs are:
 
Cambridge Audio DacMagic
Musical Fidelity V-DAC
Matrix Mini-i
 
If you're willing to go used it opens you up to things like a used Benchmark DAC1.
 
Bill

 

[champ]

 
Quote:

You mean a "standalone DAC".  Any time you are listening to digital audio, it goes through a DAC, whether it's on a soundcard or in your iPod.  The digital must be converted to analog, hence the word DAC (Digital to Analog converter).

I totally didn't understand what you were trying to tell me until read it several times.  It's amazing you just zeroed in on "until I heard it through a DAC".  Yeah I know what a DAC is.  Basically, the gist of my response to the OP is that I hear a bigger difference between DACs than amps.
 

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

You know that's not true.  It's not only about detail but the timbre of the instruments as well.  I doesn't matter what the quality of your amp is (unless it has severe distortion), you can always (at least I can) hear differences in some areas between DACs.

Tonal differences, yes.   The relatively poor ability of most portable headphone amps to drive full-sized headphones will negate any useful improvement the greater resolution of a better DAC will bring.