[EyeAmEye]

Hi
I previously owned the Sony D-E551, a mid-level PCDP with an optical/digital out. The sound (atleast from the optical out) was very well balanced. I'm looking to replace it with either the D-EJ2000 or D-EJ885 (and a few others). Both have an optical/digital out, with the same specs as the D-E551. Should I expect the same performance from either model, or do the optical/digital outs vary?
Another question, I primarily used the D-E551 optical/digital out to a Xin SuperMicro to various headphones (Grado SR325, Sennheiser HD-25-1, AKG K240S, Sony CD780, Philips HP910, etc.). If I plugged the phones straight into the optical out, there was very little volume. Recently I purchased the HD595, and I found something odd. The HD595 doesn't need the SuperMicro at all. Straight from the optical out, the HD595 is driven VERY easily, with atleast double the volume of the other phones, plus the HD595 is at 120 ohms, more than all the previous cans I've used. Anyone else ever get similar results?

 

[DanT]

Hi, just to get your fact straight. You're not using the optical/digital out. You're using the Line out. You mention using it with an supermicro which is a amp and not a DAC. ie you're using the analog part of the line-out/digital out combo jack not the digital part. To answer your question line out can vary greatly; however, I haven't heard your specific model so I can't tell you if it's better, worst, exacly the same or simply different.

Because by asking if digital out can be different is an other question with a more controversial answer. The digital out send out digital info. In an audio system digital info can affected by jitter or bad electric/optical conversion, and it may lead to worst quality. But I'm not experience enough to argue about jitter and DAC.

 

[EyeAmEye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanT Hi, just to get your fact straight. You're not using the optical/digital out. You're using the Line out. You mention using it with an supermicro which is a amp and not a DAC. ie you're using the analog part of the line-out/digital out combo jack not the digital part. To answer your question line out can vary greatly; however, I haven't heard your specific model so I can't tell you if it's better, worst, exacly the same or simply different. Because by asking if digital out can be different is an other question with a more controversial answer. The digital out send out digital info. In an audio system digital info can affected by jitter or bad electric/optical conversion, and it may lead to worst quality. But I'm not experience enough to argue about jitter and DAC.

Poor wording on my part. I never thought I was receiving the digital info to the SuperMicro. I suppose my confusion started with the HD595, which has me guessing as to why it receives much more power than the other cans straight from the jack, even though with the supermicro it needs MORE gain to get equal volume. Same with all the other PCDP's I own, the HD595 needs more power from their line outs to get equal volume. Not so with the D-E551, which is why I was wondering if the optical/digital jack has something to do with it.

 

[bangraman]

While DanT's point is the most relevant at this time in that you're not using the optical out, there are definitely significant differences to the optical outs of different players. I've plugged in my ATH-D1000 (true optical digital headphones) to a number of portables and the difference in some cases is quite profound. The D-E555 is sweet, yet quite precise and punchy. The D-555 is bold but lacking in resolution. The iMP-550 and the iHP-120 offered indifferent outputs, with perhaps the iHP being a tiny bit worse. The D-NE900 is slightly less indifferent than the iMP, and so forth... so there are differences. This is tied to the extraction of digital data and what path it takes to the optical out.

 

[AdNauseam]

bangraman:

I've been wondering why you are experiencing differences in sound quality from the digital out(I would have expected the players to output unmodified audio data). I was wondering if you could answer a couple of questions. Have you noticed the same differences with other DACs. Also, did you try lossless files on the DAPs?

 

[3lusiv3]

I don't know much about this, but I thought digital out just ouput bits over a cable so would all be the same.

 

[ixeo]

isn't digital out just 1s & 0s? how can it be different since nothing is changed.. how it "sounds" would be due to the DAC?

 

[utdeep]

no joke. i'm getting tired of this.
Digital out is digital out. recode the digital out to binary and you get identical wav files from every player. A DAC is a DAC.

 

[jpelg]

I can't explain it, but while digital data should technically be identical, all digital-out's are not necessarily equal. While it flies directly in the face of my concept that digital music data should be the same regardless of where it is coming from, I have heard marked differences between various digital sources using the same digital cable, DAC, amp, & headphones. This includes volume differences, where the same amp required a higher setting on one source than another to achieve equal levels. Don't ask me to explain it *shrug*. I've talked to many members at meets who have simliar findings. Depending on your associated equipment, it's not something you would notice unless you do a conscious A/B. But you are not crazy.

I guess Bangraman's explanation of the circuit pathway having a lot to do with it, makes the most sense.

 

[bangraman]

While differences in the abilities of decks to output digital data may be much, much smaller, the ability of the portable transport or the codec chip to output the uncompressed data over optical would seem to contribute most to the change in sound. G-protection for example compresses the data that it's sticking into the buffer on the fly, so with CD players with G-protection permanently enabled (i.e. modern ones) I'm given to understand that you get a reconstituted compressed data stream out of the optical socket.


Old-school transports clearly couldn't extract the data cleanly or fast enough, because there's a high degree of digital artifacts from the D-555. The D-E555's ESP turns off automatically when you plug in an optical client so you're getting an uncompressed data stream from the CD. The iHP, iMP, D-NE900, etc are all outputting reconstituted compressed digital data to a degree. This would seem to explain the difference in performance.

 

[ixeo]

a bit off topic here, how about computer soundcard's digital out? how big is the difference between, say the digital outputs of m-audio revolution and nForce soundstorm

 

[raif]

Bangraman, would you say that the sony d-e555 is the only worthwhile optical output you have seen in a portable? I am curious because I want something to feed my dac in the bedroom until I buy a roku soundbridge. It is a pain in the butt dragging my laptop setup in there everyday.

 

[EyeAmEye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raif Bangraman, would you say that the sony d-e555 is the only worthwhile optical output you have seen in a portable? I am curious because I want something to feed my dac in the bedroom until I buy a roku soundbridge. It is a pain in the butt dragging my laptop setup in there everyday.

raif,
my D-E551 is a cousin of the D-E555, and I believe there is one or two others strikingly similar to E551 and E555, all which have optical outs. They pop up on Ebay for relatively cheap, unfortunately I don't remember the model numbers off-hand, but I do know they all look nearly identical with minor cosmetic changes, so if you know what one model looks like, it shouldn't be hard to spot them all. If Bangraman is correct, and g-protection does compress the digital signal, the newer models (D-EJ2000 comes immediately to mind) will all have affected optical outs. Haven't heard one myself, but I do have a D-EJ885 on the way from Ebay, so I will test it alongside the D-E551.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raif Bangraman, would you say that the sony d-e555 is the only worthwhile optical output you have seen in a portable? I am curious because I want something to feed my dac in the bedroom until I buy a roku soundbridge. It is a pain in the butt dragging my laptop setup in there everyday.

To be upfront with you, all of the outputs I've used have been fairly worthwhile... None have made me puke.


But there is something not quite right with the optical outputs of many of the modern PCDP's. I remember recording albums from the EJ2000 onto Minidisc (PMDR), and it sounded curiously and very noticeably flat when I listened to it back at home. I figured it might be the PMDR's recording. I was interested enough to test from a CD deck -> PMDR and D-EJ2000 -> MD deck. It was to a certain degree both machines at fault, in that the PMDR's recording (even in the purely digital domain) is not as good as a good MD deck, but it was also very clear that the D-EJ2000's optical out was definitely inferior to a CD deck.


The D-E555 is probably the best PCDP I've used as an optical host it seems to me purely because there's no compression going on. It's quite possible that any other Sony PCDP of that era with defeatable ESP is just as good if not better... The D-E555 was not a high-end model. I was surprised it was such a difference. The first time I made the switch, I was listening to some Jazz album or other from the D1000 on a train, and re-connected the D1000 from the iMP-550 to the D-E555. The difference in clarity and tonal excellence was quite astonishing.


For those occasionally looking to amp however, the Line Out of the D-E555 is a slight disappointment. The headphone out is not bad.

 

[Notorious P.I.G.]

Bangra, it's not going to be compression because CDs are understood to be recorded at 16 bit Pulse Code Modulation at 44.1kHz sampling rate.

It could be error correction that would make a difference in sound.