Apple computers: The biggest scam in consumer electronics?

[melomaniac]

well, I've had one apple product or another since 1991. not all of them did what I hoped they would, but they all did pretty well. I also have run a mac mini as a music server, and it's okay. one of the two additional drives I got for it is noisy, so I have set up a squeezebox in another room and it's fine. - so, @OP: I agree that some apple stores do not employ many geniuses behind their genius bar, and that some hype inevitably seems part and packet-switch of marketing for gadgets of any kind. but wireless networking is complex and your troubles are not necessarily the mini's fault. it's not very likely that any other computer (name any brand) would be significantly easier for audio purposes.

 

[Fallen]

I started using Macs back when I was a video editor, when all the best editing software was essentially only on macs.

Avid and Media 100 systems were sold primarily on the Mac system (Avid eventually started making the composer and symphony available on Windows NT).

This was pre-Final Cut Pro. God, I'm old.

Back then, I would use the Macs at work and PCs at home. One day, I just realized my life would be so much simpler to switch to Macs full time. I haven't looked back, and very few people who have made the switch ever do.

I'm always willing to be convinced that windows or linux is the better platform. I have been using a linux box recently for some small things, and I'm fairly impressed. But not impressed enough.

I don't consider myself an apple fanboy by any means. I actually maintain a windows partition on my drive for some of the things that right now windows does better than a mac, certain online softwares that I require, as well as for gaming of course. But while Apple has made some fairly disappointing moves and products in the years that I've been a Mac user, those have never made me regret switching to the Mac as my main machine.

 

[craiglester]

Heh, the mac mini isn't even close to what he watned. quad core - nope - 500 GB 7200 rpm hdd - Nope. Heck they don't even give you a keyboard and mouse. Plus he wants to be able to add more drives (internally) and play games (Flight sim), and you won't be doing that with a mac mini. Well, at least not very well.. The closest Mac Mini spec, and it's not really that close to be honest, also comes in about $800 more expensive than the Dell.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by craiglester /img/forum/go_quote.gif Heh, the mac mini isn't even close to what he watned. quad core - nope - 500 GB 7200 rpm hdd - Nope. Heck they don't even give you a keyboard and mouse. Plus he wants to be able to add more drives (internally) and play games (Flight sim), and you won't be doing that with a mac mini. Well, at least not very well.. The closest Mac Mini spec, and it's not really that close to be honest, also comes in about $800 more expensive than the Dell.

Maybe windows would be better for him, especially since he is a gamer. However, I would not recommend dell in the slightest sense. They are not reliable in the slightest sense. A HP would probably be the best bet(still not that great), or even diy with high quality(not necessarily high price) parts. Most prebuilt computers use cheap parts because they are for the casual user.

What Dell seems to not understand is that with JIT inventory, their QC needs to be in check and imho it's not. But Dell will continue to get praise for their customization options and low price. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

 

[That dude]

I just got my Macbook Pro literally 3 days ago and my right speaker stopped working yesterday. It's producing this high pitch whine, hopefully when I bring the unit for exchange, there will not be anymore problems.

This always happen to me. My motorolla cell phone crashes when I close the lid too quickly, and it went through 2 mainboards before I got a replacement unit. Then, my ipod video refuses to boot out of the box. It took me 2 weeks to get it replaced. My zen works beautifully except it goes nuts and crashes occasionally. Even after my previous laptop went through a harddrive replacement, a mainboard replacement and ram upgrade, it crashes every 2 days just to infuriate me (even after I wiped the harddrive). [Why is it that even when I wiped the drive and reinstalled windows the damn computer still takes eons to boot and crashes as often as china with a freaking bull in the shop?]

Anyway, I just tell myself that these things happen and try not to think about it too much, as long as the problem is "eventually" solved, I don't mind. I just hate going in and out of repair centres.

 

[aliquis]

Scam for price = yes.
Scam for vendor lockin = yes.

Scam for onboard sound being **** = uhm, no, it kind of always is.
Scam for ****ty wireless connection = yeah, maybe a little. I don't know if it's that bad, they seem to update drivers for it every now and then saying it will get better. Anyway not much troubles on my mbp.

 

[grawk]

Scam for price? Are you kidding? The mac mini is one of the best values in computing.

Scam for vendor lockin? That's what makes apples more reliable. They have control over the hardware. I'm cool with that.

Scam for onboard sound? it comes with bit perfect digital out. That's no scam.

Scam for wireless connection? he had issues, mine works great. I'm perfectly happy wtih the wifi connection in my mac mini. It's certainly better than the builtin wifi in any other desktop computer I've ever had.

 

[vibin247]

I purchased a Mac for OS X. I was tired of Windows. I wanted to try something new, and I'm wasn't too keen on learning Linux (heck, I took one computer programming course and failed). Despite the fact that the hardware costs are higher than a PC with usually better specs, it's OS X that has staying power for the Mac user. The interface is so intuitive to me, and I can't imagine going back to Windows for home use.

It's been 6 years since I converted, and I initially had hardware issues (my PowerMac G4 stayed a month at the campus computer shop, before it was sent back, and within a weeks time, I received a brand new unit, which is still in use today). I've had program crashes and still do, but nothing serious enough to reinstall the entire OS. It's becoming more of a turtle, but it keeps up with the times, and I'm not planning on ditching it until I upgrade to a MacBook Pro and Mac Pro.

I do still use Windows, mostly at work (a photo lab), though I haven't used Vista. We've had problems reading images that were modified in Vista, so I haven't warmed up to it.

Sure, the ads are slick and designed to sell the sizzle of Apple's design flair, but as long as OS X continues to evolve, I'd still pony up the dough.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aliquis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Scam for price = yes.

Oh really!
I find ex. the Mac mini to be very competitive on price, compared to similar products.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aliquis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Scam for onboard sound being **** = uhm, no, it kind of always is.

Bit-perfect optical out. What's wrong with that?

 

[hakuryuu]

I bought my first Mac in September '07 when I got my Macbook Pro. I was amazed from day one. I have had no issues with OS X or the laptop itself so far. I have always been a Windows user because I game a lot. But when I got my MBP I can't imagine why I didn't switch sooner. I even convinced my boss to let me buy a new 2008 Mac Pro for work as I started dealing with aerial photography and am much more comfortable with the stability and performance of photoshop and lightroom in OS X. And I am hoping to be able to get a Mac Pro to replace my gaming desktop at home sometime next year as well.

If I can boot into windows when I need to and use OS X for the rest I can't see a reason not to as I typically am not that worried about bleeding edge graphics performance for the few games that actually bring higher end systems to their knees (didn't buy Crysis and probably never will nor will I buy the next 'super' game).

 

[iKonoKlast]

As a Mac fanboy myself, I agree that Apple sometimes deliberately price gouges their customers, because they know how loyal their fan base is and the most ardent supporters will argue anything and everything to justify the price. I myself have done this with a lot of their products, including their cinema displays, keyboard + mouse, iPods, etc. (almost fell for the $200 iPhone nerd tax when it first came out) but to me, the cost has always been worth it since I simply love the elegance and simplicity of Mac products and I like to keep everything in my household nice and tidy. The thought of having a bulky and unattractive beige box that is marked "Dell" or "HP" sitting on my desk is simply inconceivable for me. I know that some people think that is frivolous, but we all have different priorities and wants, and to me, visual attractiveness is a factor I consider in the products I purchase.

Regarding their consumer notebook and desktop products however, their prices are very reasonable, other than the optional hardware upgrades, considering that they design and construct the computers themselves and also develop the OS and the very generous and highly desirable software it comes bundled with. For the software alone, I don't think I could ever abandon my Mac... in this case vendor lock-in is a positive for a company like Apple because so many Mac users wouldn't trade their iPhoto, iMovie, Mail, iCal, Safari, etc. for anything else. (iTunes is another story

)

Anyhoo, I think Apple really knows how to please their consumers. They do have a niche market when it comes to computing (the opposite is true for their mp3 players) but that's what really makes 'em so great. Apple knows what they're doing... their Macs are kind of like the BMW or Lexus of computers; I would never expect them to hold a majority market share, since that's not how their products are meant to be perceived.

 

[craiglester]

While the laptops are a reasonable value in comparison to windows laptops - excluding the Air- , I really don't see how a Mac Mini can be seen as a good value in computing. Setting aside the form factor, it's got a slow processor, small HDD, no monitor, mouse or keyboard, yet still costs hundreds of dollars more than an HP or Dell.
Now, I can see why some people want a Tiny PC, but most people will take one look at the price and balk.
And that's probably before you tell them , yes they'll need to bring their own mouse, keyboard and monitor, and speakers, oh and no their kids can't play games on it unless you also buy Windows too, and we all know Windows isn't cheap at retail.

I'd estimate you're paying around double to have a tiny pc, over what you'd pay for a dell. That's not exactly a good value now is it?

Whilst I can appreciate the simplicity of a mac - I have used them many times, I don't think the average user - Joe Six pack - is going to even consider that, when they're looking at the price tag.

 

[bigshot]

For use as an A/V source along with an airport and factoring in iLife, the mini is a drop dead bargain. Bit perfect optical output out of the box, software to manage music, pictures and movies... Sure there are cheaper, but getting to the point where you can use them costs more than spending a few dollars more and just getting the Apple that is set up to do it from the get go.

See ya
Steve

 

[grawk]

Ok, just for grins, I went to dell and apple, and configured similar systems. I upgraded the mini to 160gb ( the largest drive they offered, still 90gb short of the 250 on the dell, but a pretty good size, but I agree it's smaller.) I added the usb mighty mouse and keyboard. It was $797.

Then I went to dell. Started with the cheapest base inspiron ($349). Added wireless, Windows Vista Ultimate, Roxio DVD burning software, upgraded to the core 2 duo 1.83ghz chip that's in the cheapest mini (yes, that's right, the stock dell is slower than the stock mini), and 30 days of phone in technical support (you get 90 stock with the mac). The total was $747.

The differences between the systems:

The mini only has a 160gb hard drive, doesn't burn dvds in the lowest end configuration, but does include ilife (garage band, imovie, idvd, iphoto, etc), a firewire port (I could have added one to the dell for $30, but figured most people wouldn't), bit perfect digital out (A $30 card for the dell you'd have to buy elsewhere and add to the dell).

The dell had to be upgraded to vista ultimate, because the rest of the versions of vista are seriously crippled, does have 250gb and a dvd burner.

They're very similarly useful systems. You pay slightly more for slightly less with the mac, but get a more elegant package, a better keyboard and mouse, and OS X instead of vista. I didn't include the cost of a virus checker, but the average home user probably would buy one from dell.


If you go to the all in one configurations, the imac and the dell xps are almost exactly the same, for the same price, $1299. Only with the dell, you don't get an uncrippled operating system.

 

[MaloS]

Wonder if this thread is about Mac Mini's or Apple computers in general?

If we are going to throw personal experiences into the pile - I work in the university computer labs that cater all kinds of computer resources to students. We have both, Macs and Dells running various software, (the much loved Creative Suite 3 we have running on both machines). I observe all kinds of problems and patterns with both computers, but here are some of the more important ones:
1. On our networks, which are handled either by PCs or Mac servers, depending on the lab, Macs are consistently less reliable (disconnecting from the network, exhibiting strange log-in freeze-up issues, shutting down printer drivers...).
2. The productivity software on Apple computers (the likes of Office suite, or we run MS Office adopted for Macs) runs poorly in comparison to Windows machines.
3. Our Dells, whilst cheaper, happen to be substantially faster, and haven't failed on hardware level for around 2 years now. More so - I have run more software restorations on Macs than on the Dells, and we had at least 3 issues in one room with 10 Macs with their hardware (more confined example, I don't have statistics across all of the rooms)
4. Clients with more computer familiarity tend to choose PCs over and over, even for creativity software. The only time they choose Macs ALWAYS is when we have certain software running - like FinalCut Pro, Mac only video solution.

That is more data rather than opinions I think.

Personal opinions:
A C2D based desktop Mac takes more time to open a web browser than my laptop. Blargh? In general the experience, while apparently smooth, seems to be slowed down on Macs.
The audio performance of Macs is very impressive, I agree. ProTools run without any nicks (although in the same slowed down mode comparing to a PC...grr). Sound is perfectly fine out of the jack.
The Macs tailored to designers are usually served with very nice screens, very nice feature. I wouldn't go out and say that it is better than any screen on the market, but it certainly is better than most PC manufacturers. But then I think comparing a productivity/creativity tailored 22-inch screened Mac is only fair when putting down Alienware on the other side, and Alienware has it beat on performance and screen quality (although things might get expensive here, market gets inconsistent very fast once you start paying lots of money).
Overall - this is still pulling strings back and forth. To a power-user of PCs, going to Macs with all the possible desire to like em -- the GUI tends to be a disappointment because while apparently simple, it is also weak in comparison.