Apogee Speakers R.I.P./Is this a sign from above?

[jvlgato]

Hey gang,

My beloved Apogee Centaurs which I've had for about 10 years are officially dead. One of my two beautiful and loving children must have pushed the ribbons, stretching them out of shape. In the course of seeing if I could open them up and remount them back to shape, one of the ribbons tore. I've loved them and haven't looked into speakers since then because there was no need. I use them for critical music listening for their life-like sound, but also as front speakers for home theater. (Does doing this automatically disqualify this from being High End?) Apogee went out of business years ago after Magnepan successfully sued them for patent infringement on their ribbon technology.

After I'm finished crying, I figure I can either: repair them myself, ship them to someone who will fix them, dump them for a new set of high end speakers, or dump them for speakers of medium quality and focus resources on my new found interest in headphones.

I did repair them once myself a few years back when a friend's kid put a finger through a ribbon. Those shiny ribbons sure attract little kids, don't they? But I had no kids back then so had way more free time, less distractions, and it still took me a whole weekend. Plus the replacement ribbons cost about $105 back then and now appear to cost about $380. I can only imagine the cost to pack, ship and have someone else repair them!

Finances are kind of tight right now because my wife went back to school for the last two years, but she should graduate this spring. For the amount she has spent on tuition alone, I could make a pretty good argument for a pretty nice pair of speakers!

I really do like the sound of my 'new'/old Stax system. A lot. But I always planned on also being able to listen to speakers because they allow a different experience that can be more life-like, having the music in front of you, as if you are at a concert.

I'm too torn up right now to think straight, so I'm going to wait for a bit before deciding on anything. But you guys could really help with ideas and suggestions so that when I recover and mourn adequately, I can do something to turn a bad situation into something good!

What speakers do I need to know about? I'm partial to the realistic imaging, and the immediacy/quickness and attack of planars. But if another technology can offer these qualities as well, I'm open to it. I'm very open to used stuff, too; much better value!

Maybe if my headphone system was awesome enough, I could be happy with a basic set of speakers just for movies, and do my critical listening via headphones. Dare I sell my classic Krell amp? I can't bear the thought!

Well, let me know your thoughts, I know you won't let me down! Thanks!

 

[tom hankins]

See whats cheaper...to have them fixed or buy another pr. on Agon. Dont sell the Krell, or put the cash into anything else but rebuilding your speaker system.
west coast repair---wwwtruesoundworks.com
east coast repair---www.musictechnology.com

 

[Jon L]

Which Centaurs? (Major, regular, Minor)

Centaur was a most-underrated line, and its ribbon was one of the best-sounding IMO. It's problem was the woofer section with too-small enclosure and power-handing, but one could always use an outboard sub.

I would get the ribbon and repair it if you've done it before. The Krells are made for Apogees, so leave other things alone..

 

[Uncle Erik]

First off, buy a copy of this book:

BKAA65 - Ribbon Loudspeakers

$25 and it tells you pretty much everything you need to know about ribbons. I haven't monkeyed with an Apogee, but this should have enough info for you to roll your own ribbon on the cheap. The book also has plans for a pair of ribbons. I built then about five years ago for about $250. Still work great, but there isn't much bass response. If I had to do it over (and I just might one of these days) I'd incorporate fast dynamic woofers.

If you're not into DIY, keep your eyes open for a pair of vintage ESS AMT speakers. I snagged a pair of AMT-1s locally for $300 a few months back and holy crap, they're good. They usually go $300-$400 or so and Heil's AMT is as good as anything I've heard. The issue is that they have 1970s-era woofers and not the best crossover materials. After searching, I found a pair of suitable, much faster woofers for about $90. And once I finish the current headphone amp, I'm going to give the AMTs a workover. The new woofers are going in, I'm going to line the cabinets with Dynamat and felt, restuff them, then rebuild the crossovers with low DCR Alpha Core inductors and boutique caps and resistors. I'll get the cosmetics, too. But that should tighten up and integrate the bass. Anyhow, put an ESS AMT on your short list if you want a somewhat unrecognized bargain.

You might also want to consider Magnepan. Their MMG goes for about $550, but I've seen the 1.6 as low as $750 on Audiogon. That's a steal. They're planars, but if you want to spend a little more, you could get their 3.6 or 20 which incorporate true ribbons for the mids and highs.

But if I were you, I'd look hard at rolling your own ribbon. It's not that bad and you already like your Apogees. Though keep an eye out for a used ESS. Use them for a bedroom or secondary system - you'd love them.

 

[4N6]

Perhaps they can help.

Apogee Acoustics Website

 

[Yikes]

There is a guy in Massachusetts that specializes in repairing Apogee Ribbons. I don't know if he will do a Centaurs ribbon. His name is Robert Dragunas. I think he lives down near Brockton.

Unfortunately I don't have his number any longer.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvlgato /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey gang, My beloved Apogee Centaurs which I've had for about 10 years are officially dead. One of my two beautiful and loving children must have pushed the ribbons, stretching them out of shape. In the course of seeing if I could open them up and remount them back to shape, one of the ribbons tore. I've loved them and haven't looked into speakers since then because there was no need. I use them for critical music listening for their life-like sound, but also as front speakers for home theater. (Does doing this automatically disqualify this from being High End?) Apogee went out of business years ago after Magnepan successfully sued them for patent infringement on their ribbon technology. After I'm finished crying, I figure I can either: repair them myself, ship them to someone who will fix them, dump them for a new set of high end speakers, or dump them for speakers of medium quality and focus resources on my new found interest in headphones. I did repair them once myself a few years back when a friend's kid put a finger through a ribbon. Those shiny ribbons sure attract little kids, don't they? But I had no kids back then so had way more free time, less distractions, and it still took me a whole weekend. Plus the replacement ribbons cost about $105 back then and now appear to cost about $380. I can only imagine the cost to pack, ship and have someone else repair them! Finances are kind of tight right now because my wife went back to school for the last two years, but she should graduate this spring. For the amount she has spent on tuition alone, I could make a pretty good argument for a pretty nice pair of speakers! I really do like the sound of my 'new'/old Stax system. A lot. But I always planned on also being able to listen to speakers because they allow a different experience that can be more life-like, having the music in front of you, as if you are at a concert. I'm too torn up right now to think straight, so I'm going to wait for a bit before deciding on anything. But you guys could really help with ideas and suggestions so that when I recover and mourn adequately, I can do something to turn a bad situation into something good! What speakers do I need to know about? I'm partial to the realistic imaging, and the immediacy/quickness and attack of planars. But if another technology can offer these qualities as well, I'm open to it. I'm very open to used stuff, too; much better value! Maybe if my headphone system was awesome enough, I could be happy with a basic set of speakers just for movies, and do my critical listening via headphones. Dare I sell my classic Krell amp? I can't bear the thought! Well, let me know your thoughts, I know you won't let me down! Thanks!

I really do want to congratulate you for not slicing the kids up into tiny little cubes and tossing them into the Koi pond. You have excellent self control.

Look for some vintage Polk SDA speakers, like my Polk SDA CRS. The CRS can be placed on a shelf up high and away from kids, have quick 6.5" bass/mid drivers and soft dome tweeters, and good bass from the 10" passive radiator. The soundstage is to die for.

Or, buy some Maggie MMG for $550 direct from the factory.

 

[jvlgato]

Thank you all for such thoughtful and useful ideas, I knew I'd get some good advice!

Jon L - these are the middle Centaurs, not the Major or Minor, I think they were just called 'Centaurs.' I agree about them being great in mids/highs, but a little bass deficient. I bought a pair of REL subs, and it helped solidify things without coloring the sound.

Sounds like the consensus is to essentially stay with the same or similar speaker in some way via either repair, another used one, or a pair of Maggies/ESS. I've never heard those Polks, I'll have to keep a look out for those. No one has suggested giving up on speakers, and after having some time to recover, you're all right about that.

I emailed musictechnology, and he sent a very friendly email, but his ribbons would cost $585, I'd have to do the repair myself. Seems I could get close to a new pair of some sort, certainly something used. I emailed truesoundworks, and haven't heard back yet. I actually got my previous replacement ribbons from Robert Dragunas - great call, yikes. I couldn't find our previous emails via search, but then my wife said, 'I'm always seeing something about 'Apogeespeakers' when I'm looking at our addresses, could that be it?' 'YEEEEESS!!' What a woman! I found him after searching our addresses, and sent him an email tonight. His were less than $150 a few years ago. I hope he's still around!

Has anyone actually heard the Maggie MMG? They seem like a nice price, and I've seen good reviews, but I've never heard them, and they're factory direct only.

Headphoneaddict, thanks for the kind words about not slicing up my kids. I'm sure from your previous career, you've heard some stories! They're only 3 years old and I have a big plastic fence in front of my entire system. They haven't touched anything in over 3 years! But they've gotten bigger and bigger, and the TV is right there so they always lean on the fence to watch, and they've gradually moved that fence closer and closer ... I really should have noticed how close the fence had gotten to the speakers! Plus, my wife had them away on a trip to the in-laws when I opened up the speakers and saw the extent of the damage, so I really couldn't slice them up!

Unclerik, I'm a tinkerer more than a DIY'er. I wouldn't trust myself to build a good ribbon, no matter how easy! Cool looking book, though! Maybe a good read just for fun!

Do you know if the Centaurs are true ribbons, like the higher end Maggies, or quasi-ribbons like the lower end Maggies?

Thanks again to all! Nice to not be in this alone, like I was last time!

 

[zx10guy]

I'm going to go with the consensus and recommend to have them repaired. You're not going to get something that sounds as good for the money spent to repair them...even if you paid the higher parts cost of $585. Buying used is always a crap shoot.

 

[wuwhere]

I used to own a pair of Scintillas and I repaired one of the midrange ribbons. I bought the ribbons from Apogee. It was time consuming.

 

[jvlgato]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuwhere /img/forum/go_quote.gif I used to own a pair of Scintillas and I repaired one of the midrange ribbons. I bought the ribbons from Apogee. It was time consuming.

I finally heard back from Robert Dragunas. His ribbons are much cheaper at $250 plus shipping. Yet I just dread the thought of spending a weekend opening those up and soldering. I've gotten lazy in my old age!

Then there's a part of me that wonders if it sounds as good since I don't really know what I'm doing, and if a new Maggie would sound better; maybe there have been improvements in the last 20 years? Did your repair sound ok to you?

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvlgato /img/forum/go_quote.gif I finally heard back from Robert Dragunas. His ribbons are much cheaper at $250 plus shipping. Yet I just dread the thought of spending a weekend opening those up and soldering. I've gotten lazy in my old age! Then there's a part of me that wonders if it sounds as good since I don't really know what I'm doing, and if a new Maggie would sound better; maybe there have been improvements in the last 20 years? Did your repair sound ok to you?

What about having a local tech do the replacement for you? There should be a few guitar or radio guys around Chicago capable of doing it. I don't know how difficult it is to open an Apogee, but I've replaced my ribbons a few times due to cats and curious children. Only about 30-40 minutes per speaker and no soldering necessary. The worst part is getting them aligned evenly between the magnets. If a tech charges $40-$50 per hour, it might be worth hiring it out.

 

[jvlgato]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif What about having a local tech do the replacement for you? There should be a few guitar or radio guys around Chicago capable of doing it. I don't know how difficult it is to open an Apogee, but I've replaced my ribbons a few times due to cats and curious children. Only about 30-40 minutes per speaker and no soldering necessary. The worst part is getting them aligned evenly between the magnets. If a tech charges $40-$50 per hour, it might be worth hiring it out.

I hadn't looked into that - good idea!

I did this once before, and it is easy to open the speakers up, but they are big and cumbersome, and each speaker ribbon requires 8 wires to be soldered. Back then I had no kids and had lots of free time, those days are long gone.

Nice to know I'm not alone w/ the curious children!

 

[wuwhere]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvlgato /img/forum/go_quote.gif I finally heard back from Robert Dragunas. His ribbons are much cheaper at $250 plus shipping. Yet I just dread the thought of spending a weekend opening those up and soldering. I've gotten lazy in my old age! Then there's a part of me that wonders if it sounds as good since I don't really know what I'm doing, and if a new Maggie would sound better; maybe there have been improvements in the last 20 years? Did your repair sound ok to you?

I don't remember doing any soldering when I replaced the ribbon on my old Scintilla. But yours might be different.

 

[bbess1]

As a former Apogee Stage and Duetta Sig Owner I am sorry for your loss. Try the apogee users group:

AudioWorld's StraightWire Forums

Also, you can buy mmgs used from audiogon for less than 550.
I have a pair, since my wife can't abide the look of apogees. They are not the last word in detail like your centaurs, but they are cheap and do the planar imaging thing really well. They can be tweaked as well for not alot of money. A sub really helps but you can run them without.
The MUG or maggie users group is the planar group at audio asylum.

Best of Luck!