[Alec246]

It's still on sale:



http://www.adorama.com/AEGROOVE.html?emailprice=t&hotlink=t&svfor=5m&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905&cvosrc=affiliate.62905

 


Thank you! But the HD600 deal at B&H got me. But the Apogee Groove is gonna be my next upgrade for sure! The HD600 deserves some proper Amp and DAC.

 

[robb.]

i've been thinking about upgrading to this from my nuforce uDAC-2, but between the comments on multi-BA performance and the what hi-fi review i'm a little less decided. my primary listening is with AKG K3003i, but i also use (in order of time) grado SR60, AKG IP2, AKG K272HD, and sony MDR-7506. the K3003i have two BA drivers for mids and highs and a dynamic bass driver and are very low impedance at 8Ohms. none are particularly high impedance.
 
first, has anyone done any listening comparisons between the groove and the uDAC? what about the TEAC HA-P50 that what hi-fi seems to prefer?

 

[EinZweiDrei]

after some time with the apogee groove i've noticed that it has trouble with the AKG K7 series or Q701 headphones.
the amp doesn't drive them well at all. the akg x7 series were always weird when it comes to amping.
on the sennheiser hd650 and hd600 is isn't bad. hd650 and hd600 seem more reliant on the DAC than amp.

 

[blse59]

I'm using these with the Sony MDR-V6. What can I say? The sound is sublime. Crystal clear and eargasm inducing.

 

[parnold]

So, 

I got one of these along with the HD650 bundle, and was planning on selling them (have an O2/ODAC on the way), but then got the itch to test it out while waiting for my O2/ODAC. After reading about it on innerfidelity and hearing about their engineering feat of dealing with constant-current & variable headphone impedance spikes such as those presented in HD800 & HD650, as pointed out by Tyll, and a post from an Apogee employee re: using HD800's as reference headphones while designing the groove, I had to try it out. 
 
My brief review:
 
Holy ****. 
 
Build quality: 
Extremely sturdy, feels solid and has a nice metal finish. Sticks to my desk wonderfully with the rubber pads underneath. This thing is perfect for traveling. 
 

Sound Quality:

On a T20RP DBV #3:
Totally came alive. Not even funny the difference between non-amp (macbook-pro) and this. Lows - subbass - mids - highs, everything. It's a dead black source. It honestly feels like I haven't listened to my headphones before. Plenty of headroom, don't go over 50%
 
On a Sennheiser HD650: 
Fantastic, everywhere, low -> highs. 
 
I can't wait to compare with my O2/ODAC revB

 

[sheldaze]

  I'm using these with the Sony MDR-V6. What can I say? The sound is sublime. Crystal clear and eargasm inducing.

I really liked this pairing too!
Made it hard to me to give back the MDR-V6, which I bought for my Dad 

 

[sheldaze]

  So, 

I got one of these along with the HD650 bundle, and was planning on selling them (have an O2/ODAC on the way), but then got the itch to test it out while waiting for my O2/ODAC. After reading about it on innerfidelity and hearing about their engineering feat of dealing with constant-current & variable headphone impedance spikes such as those presented in HD800 & HD650, as pointed out by Tyll, and a post from an Apogee employee re: using HD800's as reference headphones while designing the groove, I had to try it out. 
 
My brief review:
 
Holy ****. 
 
I can't wait to compare with my O2/ODAC revB

I think your O2/ODAC revB will be better in some ways, but I still find myself coming back to this simple setup. It is exactly as you described it, wonderful.
 
BTW, I am using the O2/ODAC revB a little loosely, in that I'm actually comparing using JDS Labs The Element. It is indeed an ODAC revB, but a slightly different amplifier architecture. But I still like the Groove when I plug back into it.

 

[_js_]

I just ordered a Groove today and will recieve it tomorrow evening if all goes as planned.

I used to own a JDS C5D which has a battery and worked with my iPhone but I found it to just be too much of a pain. If I'm portable I want to be really portable and my ER-4S's and HD595's sounded plenty good enough out of the iPhone hpo. So I sold it.

But now I think I'm going to step up to the HD700's or similar at some point and wanted a convenient amp / dac for harder to drive cans and the Groove is really appealing because of how small it is. It looks to me like I would notice very little difference (ergonomically) between headphones straight out of my rMBP vs plugged into groove. The Groove doesn't seem like it would need its own table surface but could just hang or rest on the chair, etc.

And I'm very excited about the current controlled drive which has a number of advantages.

If anyone has paired the groove with the HD700's I'd love to hear your impressions!

 

[GokceYLD]

Hi,
 
this is my first post to this forum and english is not my mother language..
 
I received my groove previous day and I wanted to share my experience. 
 
I have the HD650 and prior to Groove I had the dragonfly 1.2 ( still have ) which I felt it did not have enough power to drive the Sennheiser's. I usually had to turn the volume to maximum on some tracks for satisfactory levels.. I was also not satisfied with the low end punch and felt phones had much more potential then what this dac was able to drive. 
 
I mainly listen to Spotify and Tidal.. and sometimes hi-res tracks I buy from hdtracks through VOX player in Mac. 
 
So I was looking again at the portable and USB powered DACs with more power and better sound quality than the Dragonfly since I take my laptop with me around.. Groove caught my attention with better ESS chip and constant current drive feature which supposed to drive my Senn's better than Daragonfly. they also recommend the Senn's in their website so I was also carious if the sound signature would make the hd650's more live since they are on the warm side. Also in Turkey the company had a distributor so I would not have to deal with ordering online and pay plus VAT at the customs for other brands not available in Turkey..
 
So after 2 days of constant listening sessions evenings, I feel like there are no enormous differences compared to dragonfly and even my macbook pro retina's output. Maybe I dont have an audiophile sensitive ears but let me share my experiences and I would like to have other's comments as well..
 
Groove does have a bit more power than the Dragonfly.. Where as I sometimes need to turn the volume to max on the Dragonfly, the Groove starts to become loud after mid point.. I never needed to go full volume. The sub base also seems to be more evident compared to dragonfly if I listen carefully.  
 
Groove and Dragonfly sound signatures do seem a bit different as well. I can not go in details to the frequency spectrum since I am not that experienced but as far as I can detect, groove has a "bit" more detail in representation then the Dragonfly and a bit more analytical perhaps.. I feel like Dragonfly is more "airy", more distance to instruments, more laid back.. like you sitting a bit further from the sound stage.. I can not decide which I prefer more. Some tracks I like dragonfly more.. Specially on Spotify.. I guess this airy sound makes dragonfly more smooth with compressed music and rock / pop genres.. But with hi-res music, groove's detail and more power is more satisfying to listen to. But again, I dont hear details with the groove that are not detectable on the dragonfly as some others tell in reviews. Just it is bit more clear, better separated. 
 
However, the surprising thing for me was these differences is very small and needs very focused and careful listening to detect.. Even compared to my laptops output ! prior to my purchases I searched for forums for all the reviews I could find and I have seen people expressing enormous differences Groove to Dragonfly let alone the computer output.. Phrases like "amazing", "miracle" etc.. So my expectations from this devices were high when purchasing.. I was expecting them to change my listening pleasure to another level every time going from mac output to Dragonfly and then to Groove. Maybe I dont have the ears to hear this much differences but in my experience there is no "amazing" difference with both this dac's compared to my laptops output. They did not transform my laptops output to "another level" my Senn's deserve.. So I question if 500 usd in total I paid for both DAC's is logic or not for the minor differences I get in return..    
 
I am afraid of spending more for USB powered alternatives. Maybe I should not expect much more from USB powered DAC/AMP's and step up to something like Schiit stacks or vs.. 
 
I would like to hear others comments as well.. 

 

[pete321]

I also have the HD650 and groove combo, at first I was very impressed but not so much anymore. It's just ok.
 
Needs more power for some songs, even the max won't cut it, has nice detail and separation but the sound stage is not wide enough.
 
Overall I'm not complaining, it's my first DAC and good quality headphones, but I think the geekoutV2 and HD800 will be a dream setup. Maybe one day.

 

[sheldaze]

  Hi,
 
this is my first post to this forum and english is not my mother language..
 
I received my groove previous day and I wanted to share my experience. 
 
I have the HD650 and prior to Groove I had the dragonfly 1.2 ( still have ) which I felt it did not have enough power to drive the Sennheiser's. I usually had to turn the volume to maximum on some tracks for satisfactory levels.. I was also not satisfied with the low end punch and felt phones had much more potential then what this dac was able to drive. 
 
.
.
. 
 
I am afraid of spending more for USB powered alternatives. Maybe I should not expect much more from USB powered DAC/AMP's and step up to something like Schiit stacks or vs.. 
 
I would like to hear others comments as well.. 

Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry for your wallet.
 
I am sure you will hear this phrase from many people - sorry for your wallet. From your experience, upgrading from one device to the next, I think you have already begun to understand why people say this. I too had started with an AudioQuest DragonFly 1.2 - not too expensive. Consider simply two sets of products from Schiit, both which I currently own:
 

1. Schiit Fulla costs $79
2. Schiit Ragnarok and Yggdrasil combined cost $4000

 
Does having the Schiit stack costing $4000 suddenly mean the Schiit Fulla sounds wrong? This will never be true. There will be more quality experience from the stack, but it will not be suddenly the best sound. This is a question you must ask yourself. And you must be truthful with yourself. If you are not happy with the new sound, try to return it. Other than a few caveats, such as making sure your system is setup correctly, there will not be much upgrade to sound beyond a certain point. The AudioQuest DragonFly 1.2 is a really good, quality starting point.
 
I do recommend the Schiit stacks, such as:
 

1. Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Uber (combined cost around $300)
2. Lyr 2 and Bifrost (combined cost around $850)
3. Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir Multibit (combined cost around $2100)

 
I actually use a Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon and Gungnir Multibit (combined cost around $1850), and find I need no better sound than this. But I had to try each level for my own ears, to be sure.
 
And as you try these, also try to remember, or keep around, your original sound - the DragonFly. If you are happy with the new sound, great! Otherwise, perhaps the DragonFly is plenty of sound for you. And then you are actually quite lucky 

 

 

[mtliu]

  Hi,
 
this is my first post to this forum and english is not my mother language..
 
I received my groove previous day and I wanted to share my experience. 
 
I have the HD650 and prior to Groove I had the dragonfly 1.2 ( still have ) which I felt it did not have enough power to drive the Sennheiser's. I usually had to turn the volume to maximum on some tracks for satisfactory levels.. I was also not satisfied with the low end punch and felt phones had much more potential then what this dac was able to drive. 
 
I mainly listen to Spotify and Tidal.. and sometimes hi-res tracks I buy from hdtracks through VOX player in Mac. 
 
So I was looking again at the portable and USB powered DACs with more power and better sound quality than the Dragonfly since I take my laptop with me around.. Groove caught my attention with better ESS chip and constant current drive feature which supposed to drive my Senn's better than Daragonfly. they also recommend the Senn's in their website so I was also carious if the sound signature would make the hd650's more live since they are on the warm side. Also in Turkey the company had a distributor so I would not have to deal with ordering online and pay plus VAT at the customs for other brands not available in Turkey..
 
So after 2 days of constant listening sessions evenings, I feel like there are no enormous differences compared to dragonfly and even my macbook pro retina's output. Maybe I dont have an audiophile sensitive ears but let me share my experiences and I would like to have other's comments as well..
 
Groove does have a bit more power than the Dragonfly.. Where as I sometimes need to turn the volume to max on the Dragonfly, the Groove starts to become loud after mid point.. I never needed to go full volume. The sub base also seems to be more evident compared to dragonfly if I listen carefully.  
 
Groove and Dragonfly sound signatures do seem a bit different as well. I can not go in details to the frequency spectrum since I am not that experienced but as far as I can detect, groove has a "bit" more detail in representation then the Dragonfly and a bit more analytical perhaps.. I feel like Dragonfly is more "airy", more distance to instruments, more laid back.. like you sitting a bit further from the sound stage.. I can not decide which I prefer more. Some tracks I like dragonfly more.. Specially on Spotify.. I guess this airy sound makes dragonfly more smooth with compressed music and rock / pop genres.. But with hi-res music, groove's detail and more power is more satisfying to listen to. But again, I dont hear details with the groove that are not detectable on the dragonfly as some others tell in reviews. Just it is bit more clear, better separated. 
 
However, the surprising thing for me was these differences is very small and needs very focused and careful listening to detect.. Even compared to my laptops output ! prior to my purchases I searched for forums for all the reviews I could find and I have seen people expressing enormous differences Groove to Dragonfly let alone the computer output.. Phrases like "amazing", "miracle" etc.. So my expectations from this devices were high when purchasing.. I was expecting them to change my listening pleasure to another level every time going from mac output to Dragonfly and then to Groove. Maybe I dont have the ears to hear this much differences but in my experience there is no "amazing" difference with both this dac's compared to my laptops output. They did not transform my laptops output to "another level" my Senn's deserve.. So I question if 500 usd in total I paid for both DAC's is logic or not for the minor differences I get in return..    
 
I am afraid of spending more for USB powered alternatives. Maybe I should not expect much more from USB powered DAC/AMP's and step up to something like Schiit stacks or vs.. 
 
I would like to hear others comments as well.. 

My upgrade to the Apogee came from a Fiio E07K+E09K dock combo. The Apogee costs a little bit more than the Fiio combo and the Apogee only sounds a little but better. This was my first impression, but over time, the subtle difference is not so subtle since the Fiio is now in my office driving some BOSE speakers and I use the Apogee almost all other times. 

The differences are actually only apparent when I critically listen - concentrating only on the music and nothing else - which is not how I listen to music.

The Fiios have loads more features and are more flexible than the Apogee - but the size of the Apogee is wonderful. But there are features of the Fiios that I miss on the Apogee sometimes: ability to use as an amp alone and tone controls (for less than ideal source material).

The Apogee is priced right around. It sounds slightly better than a DAC that costs $100 less - I have quite a few in the lower price range besides the E07K. I can't comment on how the Apogee compares to a more expensive DAC.

 

[mtliu]

  I also have the HD650 and groove combo, at first I was very impressed but not so much anymore. It's just ok.
 
Needs more power for some songs, even the max won't cut it, has nice detail and separation but the sound stage is not wide enough.
 
Overall I'm not complaining, it's my first DAC and good quality headphones, but I think the geekoutV2 and HD800 will be a dream setup. Maybe one day.

It's a great first DAC. For me, it was a 6th DAC - and it's great for that.

 

[_js_]

OK.  Been auditioning the Apogee Groove for an hour or so now, and the first thing I have to say--which I already knew--is that the headphone out on the new 15" Retina MacBook Pro is really outstanding, given what it is!
 
I've been switching back and forth between the groove and the rMBP hpo like crazy, trying to pinpoint the differences (if any).  And there definitely are differences, but they aren't glaring, and the rMBP fares pretty well, really, but, yes, the Groove is better to my ears, especially in the bass.  They definitely improve the bass in both my Sony MDR-7506's and my Senn HD595's.  At first I was thinking that the Groove was actually worse because I felt like the treble was better straight out of the rMBP, but as I tried to zero-in on exactly what was happening, I realized that what was really happening was that the bass was getting extended and tightened.  This was with the Senn's.  With the Sony's, it was obviously better sound out of the Groove.  Out of the Groove, the 7506's have less of the boomy-ness that occasionally bothers me.  Or maybe they have none.  I haven't listened for long enough to be sure.  But, they are better out of the Groove.  Not dramatically better.  But better.
 
The volume control buttons on the unit and the volume control buttons on the Mac keyboard are both controlling the exact same volume.  It's not the case where there's the volume going into the DAC/Amp, and then there's the volume out of the unit itself.  This is the way it is with my bluetooth Jambox speaker or with the JDS C5D.  In both those cases, you want the digital volume on the iPhone (for instance) to be maxed out, and to control the volume via the Jambox or C5D.  I mean you can lower the volume via the iPhone, and a little of that is OK.  But too much and what you're doing is providing a cut-down digital input which then needs to be over-amplified at the analog stage, and this can only hurt the sound quality.
 
None of those issues here.  There's only the one volume.  And, in case some people reading don't know this trick, if you hold down the SHIFT and OPTION keys while you adjust the volume up or down, it goes in quarter steps, instead of the full steps, which for me are just too large a jump.  Pushing the buttons on the unit are exactly the same as using this shift-option trick.  It raises or lowers the volume in quarter steps.
 
I find the buttons to be easy to use, but I am holding the unit in my hand while pushing them.  They are a little bit on the stiff side if you are pushing down on them while the unit is resting on a table or on your laptop.
 
I also quite like the green/red LED's on the front, but I can see where others might find this annoying.  The red light doesn't indicate clipping, but instead 0 dBFS (zero dB Full Scale), and many recording are pushed up to the absolute loudest, and made loud by many other means as well.  And all bits turned on in a digital recording is the absolute loudest.  This doesn't mean clipping.  One bit of loudness more--that would be clipping.  But as long as the loudest peaks only hit the digital max, then, it's all good.  Except, it's still not a good idea.  Personally, I think there should still be just a little bit of room.  And, in fact, any track that was "Mastered for iTunes" is required to have at least a tenth of a dB room below 0 dBFS.
 
And, for example, Taylor Swift's 1989 is mastered for iTunes, and I switched over to it while writing the above paragraph, and so far, I have seen no red led hold light.  So, I think I'm right about this.  And, I think it's also no problem if the red LED does light up.  It's pretty common for recordings to be pushed up to 0 dBFS during the mastering process.
 
Anyway, the Groove also gets nice and toasty warm to the touch but not hot--or not so far for me.
 
The main headline for me, though, is that this thing is POWERFUL.  I don't know what was happening to others who commented earlier that they need to raise the volume near to max, but I suspect that the digital level into the Groove was low, or the recording was quite low, or something along those lines.  Because I can't even raise this thing to one quarter volume on the 595's or 7506's.  And yes, I know the HD600's are a lot harder to drive, but, they're not THAT hard to drive!  And, by the specs, the Groove will put 225mW into 30 ohms and 40mW into 600 ohms.  That's 4.899 volts into 600 ohms and 2.598 volts into 30 ohms, so it will probably put 4 volts or so into 300 ohms, which is the impedance of the HD600's at 1kHZ.  At 1 volt, the SPL is freaking 102 dB.  Quadrupling the voltage means increasing the power by 16 times, which is an SPL of 118 dB.  So, if the input to the Groove really were close to full scale, you're talking about hearing damage.  So, color me skeptical that anyone couldn't reach sufficient volume with a properly configured groove + HD600 combo.  Either the unit was defective, or the source material wasn't full scale (or some Windows double volume issue type deal).  OR, possibly, if the USB port wasn't able to deliver the full 500mA of output current at 5V, that might cause the Groove to not function properly.
 
I don't know.  Maybe I'm totally wrong here, but during development of the Groove, Apogee employees specifically tested it with the HD600, HD800, etc.
 
Anyway, I'm impressed.  Solid piece of kit, and will enable me to step up to pretty much whatever can I want.  Plus, I'm it seems like this can also improve easy to drive headphones.  I may re-acquire some Grado RS-2e's and see how they sound out of the Groove!
 
Just my first impressions, for what they're worth.  Will need to spend a lot more time to see how the Groove is with extended listening.

 

[blse59]

Yeah, on Windows and listening to pop/rock recordings, my volume is at 3% max. For classical and jazz I might go to 5-7%. So these get plenty loud.
 
There is a huge improvement with the Groove over my laptop. But then again, I'm using a Windows laptop which means crappy onboard audio. Unlike with Apple. I'm not sure if I owned a fairly recent Apple laptop if I would have sprung for an external amp/dac. Most audio hardware on Apple products are excellent quality. I'm happy with the sound coming out of my 2011 era iPad 2. But at least with the Groove you know you're getting consistent sound of the highest quality.