[_js_]

Spent another perfectly delightful hour or two with my new Apogee Groove, and I'm really liking it. As I suspected, it's very convenient and takes almost no extra space. In fact it's more convenient than listening straight out of my laptop because I can more easily adjust the volume while I'm listening. And it's literally plug and play on OS X.

My previous Mac was a pre- unibody Macbook Pro and the hpo on that was just awful. Which is why I bought my Apogee Duet, actually. Still have it, still use it with a thunderbolt to FW adaptor. But it's way less convenient and not as powerful as the Groove. And it has 30 freaking ohms of output impedance! So the Senn 595's sound poor out of it and the Sony 7506's sound ok but not great. My Grado's sounded awesome out of it, but the FR changes there were obviously to my liking in that case.

With the Groove's current regulated drive, output impedance is a complete non-issue and it will also reduce ringing and overshoot to the extent that it is able.

And it's so small it will fit right in one of the pockets in my laptop case.

But it is not, however, light. It's a pretty dense and hefty piece of equipment, which lends it a solid and quality feel.

It's a keeper!

 

[GokceYLD]

   
 
I've been switching back and forth between the groove and the rMBP hpo like crazy, trying to pinpoint the differences (if any).  And there definitely are differences, but they aren't glaring, and the rMBP fares pretty well, really, but, yes, the Groove is better to my ears, especially in the bass.  
 
 

 
This is just what I exactly observed as well..

 

[_js_]

Two quick things:

1. I should have said above that sonically the output impedance of the Groove is a complete non-issue. Since it's current controlled it will adjust the output voltage accordingly to compensate for the voltage drop across the output impedance. You do still lose power to the output impedance, though.

2. The Groove is more powerful than the JDS Labs C5D, which is really awesome. The C5D will put 4.186 and 1.182 volts into 600 and 32 ohms respectively. Compare that to the specs I posted above and you can see that the Groove is more than twice as powerful when driving 32 ohm cans and 20 percent more powerful into 600 ohm cans.

And it's quite a bit smaller and more convenient than the C5D. So, for those using a laptop as their music library / file-stoarge device, the Groove has significant advantages.

On the other hand, it has no battery and so is really not suited to a portable rig, and I think it's crazy to try to make it serve in this capacity! 500 mA at 5V is 2.5 WATTS of power draw. Even the most impressive smart phone batteries can't keep that up for long!

 

[mtliu]

  Yeah, on Windows and listening to pop/rock recordings, my volume is at 3% max. For classical and jazz I might go to 5-7%. So these get plenty loud.
 
There is a huge improvement with the Groove over my laptop. But then again, I'm using a Windows laptop which means crappy onboard audio. Unlike with Apple. I'm not sure if I owned a fairly recent Apple laptop if I would have sprung for an external amp/dac. Most audio hardware on Apple products are excellent quality. I'm happy with the sound coming out of my 2011 era iPad 2. But at least with the Groove you know you're getting consistent sound of the highest quality.

The groove is definately WAY loud and clear. It is the first DAC that will overload the input of my DENON receiver. How do I know this? Because there is an input overload LED. I've never seen it blink before - I've hooked line out from the my other Amp/DACs (Fiio E17K and Fiio E09K) and ave not had this happen. With everything wide open on my Windows laptop, generally I don't turn the Groove over 15/100. For use as a DAC feeding the PA system at the club, I can't turn the Groove above 55/100 without overloading the receiver (feeds aux speakers), which is consumer level. The PA, however, is professional line level.

 

[_js_]

 
Yeah, on Windows and listening to pop/rock recordings, my volume is at 3% max. For classical and jazz I might go to 5-7%. So these get plenty loud.

There is a huge improvement with the Groove over my laptop. But then again, I'm using a Windows laptop which means crappy onboard audio. Unlike with Apple. I'm not sure if I owned a fairly recent Apple laptop if I would have sprung for an external amp/dac. Most audio hardware on Apple products are excellent quality. I'm happy with the sound coming out of my 2011 era iPad 2. But at least with the Groove you know you're getting consistent sound of the highest quality.

The groove is definately WAY loud and clear. It is the first DAC that will overload the input of my DENON receiver. How do I know this? Because there is an input overload LED. I've never seen it blink before - I've hooked line out from the my other Amp/DACs (Fiio E17K and Fiio E09K) and ave not had this happen. With everything wide open on my Windows laptop, generally I don't turn the Groove over 15/100. For use as a DAC feeding the PA system at the club, I can't turn the Groove above 55/100 without overloading the receiver (feeds aux speakers), which is consumer level. The PA, however, is professional line level.

Inputs on something like a stereo receiver or PA system have very high impedance--typically 10kOhms--and so require very little driving power, and thus all that matters is the voltage in. Professional line level is 2V and consumer gear is looking for 1V. Since the Groove can put almost 5V into 600 ohms it will put just about 5V into 10k ohms. So it's providing about double what pro gear is looking for and about five times what consumer gear is looking for.

However, it's very easy to drive a line level input because it draws almost no current and thus takes almost no power. As long as you have the voltage it's looking for, all is well. And it's a purely resistive or non-reactive load.

Speakers and headphones on the other hand are reactive loads and have an impedance that varies with frequency and are much more challenging to drive.

 

[_js_]

My Apogee Groove went intermittent a couple times while I was listening today, and I wasn't moving and the cable and headphones were all securely and fully plugged in. Seems like what happened to another person in this thread, if I remember correctly!

In addition, I had been planning on giving the Senn HD700 a try, but have decided instead to give the Grado RS2e's another go. So I am returning my Apogee Groove for a refund, and that will get me more than halfway towards RS2e's which, unlike the HD700's, really don't need an amp.

Thus ends my Groove experience. But I'd still highly recommend it to anyone, and if I ever need a USB amp/dac for my laptop, that's definitely what I will buy again! And maybe even one of the special silver ones if they're still available at that point.

 

[mtliu]

My Apogee Groove went intermittent a couple times while I was listening today, and I wasn't moving and the cable and headphones were all securely and fully plugged in. Seems like what happened to another person in this thread, if I remember correctly!

In addition, I had been planning on giving the Senn HD700 a try, but have decided instead to give the Grado RS2e's another go. So I am returning my Apogee Groove for a refund, and that will get me more than halfway towards RS2e's which, unlike the HD700's, really don't need an amp.

Thus ends my Groove experience. But I'd still highly recommend it to anyone, and if I ever need a USB amp/dac for my laptop, that's definitely what I will buy again! And maybe even one of the special silver ones if they're still available at that point.

That's too bad. I've had similar problems, but I determined it was all due to the cable. I have so many devices that use the micro-USB that I go through cables like crazy. It sounds like yours wasn't due to a cable though.

 

[GokceYLD]

My Apogee Groove went intermittent a couple times while I was listening today, and I wasn't moving and the cable and headphones were all securely and fully plugged in. Seems like what happened to another person in this thread, if I remember correctly!

In addition, I had been planning on giving the Senn HD700 a try, but have decided instead to give the Grado RS2e's another go. So I am returning my Apogee Groove for a refund, and that will get me more than halfway towards RS2e's which, unlike the HD700's, really don't need an amp.

Thus ends my Groove experience. But I'd still highly recommend it to anyone, and if I ever need a USB amp/dac for my laptop, that's definitely what I will buy again! And maybe even one of the special silver ones if they're still available at that point.

 
Sorry to hear this. Yesterday I experienced similar thing while I was listening to Spotify. But I assumed maybe it was an internet connection or Spotify cache related thing and did not pay attention to it. Only happened once. Hope it is not Groove related and doesn't repeat since the more I use it the more I start to enjoy the Groove over dragonfly. 

 

[Smokhee]

Good news for Samsung Note Edge owners!   Got the groove and an OTG from Amazon.  Nervously plugged the OTG then the groove....and the lights came on!  Works like a charm!  The great thing about the Note is that you can buy batteries for less than 10 dollars if you wanted a long session with the Apogee.  It was truly plug and play, didn't have to do anything...Spotify worked like a charm, and the sound was AWESOME.  
 
BTW I have been reading reports of the rMBP output being nearly the equal of the Groove...with a Senn 650!!  My rMBP (15 inch late 2013) can barely drive my 650s.  The sound out of my Groove is much better, not even close.  I also have had experience with the Headstage arrow + USB DAC, and when my USB DAC cable (from Headstage) broke, I hooked up a very well reviewed amplifier (Cayin C5) to the headphone output of the rMBP.  I can say without a doubt that the Groove sounds the best of them all.  I guess I would describe the sound as "effortless" and "full"...just fantastic in my opinion.  
 
So far I am pretty happy with the Groove as it is VERY portable, you don't have to worry about the amp being charged, or how many cycles of charging/uncharging you were putting your amp through, carrying an extra USB/DAC, etc.  The power draw is significant on the phone, so it is not a good solution for long sessions unless you have a plan for battery power.  Thanks for the heads up about this product and I hope I have provided a bit of info.  I can say that this is the best I have ever heard out of my Sennheiser HD650s.  I will test on some other headphones too and report back.  
 
As with any product there are advantages/disadvantages depending on what you are looking for...for me, this tiny thing is exactly what I needed since I usually listen through my Macbook and don't need to have a powered amplifier.  I am undecided on the lights so far...

 

[Smokhee]

Update:  hooked up my Shure SRH940s to the Groove as well as directly to the rMBP (late 2013).  The SRH940 has relatively low impedance, and is made for monitoring in music studios.  It is very accurate but not the best for long term listening.  There was a clear difference with the Groove, especially in bass.  Much better separation.  Not surprised by this, but given that some people reported only small differences between the Groove and the Mac outputs, thought I would add another voice here.  
 
Also hooked up my Shure SE535 in-ear phones as the Groove is not really designed for armature drivers.  I thought the sound was cleaner through the Groove rather than the headphone out of the macbook.  Any input on this from our Apogee rep?  Thanks!

 

[TimSchirmer]

Let me know what you think of the Mojo. I'm currently using a Grace M901 and am loving it despite the fact it's probably quote dated. I wasn't that impressed with the Hugo for the money, but I would really like to see if they have a good bang for your buck with the Mojo. Otherwise I'd probably just hold off and get the M903 when I save more $.

 

[Smokhee]

Well, after listening for a while I decided to return my Groove.  It is a great dac/amp for my HD650 but I like using my IEM's a lot, especially on the go...so I decided that I need something a bit more versatile.  And the phone battery draw was just too much to deal with.  So I decided to go for a Chord Mojo....this forum is dangerous for the wallet!

 

[richsto]

Anyone tried the groove out with HiFIMan HE-400? Am satisfied with my Dragonfly for the most part but wondering how ithe Groove drives them.....

Thanks.

 

[Sorpanino]

distant silent what???

 

[Sorpanino]

Wow navigating this tthread is hard, so many posts! haha