Apogee Groove Dac / Headphone Amp

[clinkzclinkz]

So, this is the teardown I was referring to, thanks for linking it.

It shows that the Apogee Groove black is using the ESS ES9018S chip. It seems like you are really informed about this, so I will defer to you. I had just based my review on what I had researched and still can't figure out why there is so much confusion about the chip it uses. The picture shows it pretty clearly, but where are the specs for this chip? I found specs for the ES9018, but not the ES9018S.

There is a review about the anniversary edition using a better chip than the black, and they mention that it is the ES9016, which I believe is the same as the dragonfly red. I think you're saying that the Groove uses a desktop chip vs the DFR's mobile chip, which makes sense. But, the black would use a lesser quality chip than the anniversary edition, right? That doesn't make sense if the black is using the 9018 as seen in the teardown, since that would make it a better chip than the 9016? It's too bad Apogee doesn't just list the exact specs of the black vs. the anniversary edition. I'm very curious to find out the exact differences between the black and anniversary, so if you have any official info about that, please share!

Hi, 9018s = 9018, apogee uses desktop 90xx series chip (8 channels, which you can clearly see from the official apogee website), while most of the other portable dac, use 90xx mobile version (2 channels).
1 apogee groove 9016 chip = 4 dragonfly red 9016 chips.
http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en/products/sabre-digital-analog-converters/audiophile-dacs/ these are 8 channels chip
http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en/products/sabre-digital-analog-converters/sabre-hifi-mobile-dacs/ these are 2 channels chip

Let me explain why dragonfly red/black has wrong adversement that make you think it is similar as apogee's since they omit the "K2M", as you can see in the previous link, 9010 does not have 8 channels desktop chip only 9010K2M, but they didnt state, same for dfr, it is 9016K2M.

 

[ra990]

Hi, 9018s = 9018, apogee uses desktop 90xx series chip (8 channels, which you can clearly see from the official apogee website), while most of the other portable dac, use 90xx mobile version (2 channels).
1 apogee groove 9016 chip = 4 dragonfly red 9016 chips.
http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en/products/sabre-digital-analog-converters/audiophile-dacs/ these are 8 channels chip
http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en/products/sabre-digital-analog-converters/sabre-hifi-mobile-dacs/ these are 2 channels chip

Let me explain why dragonfly red/black has wrong adversement that make you think it is similar as apogee's since they omit the "K2M", as you can see in the previous link, 9010 does not have 8 channels desktop chip only 9010K2M, but they didnt state, same for dfr, it is 9016K2M.

I already understand the difference between the dragonfly products and the Apogee Groove (mobile vs desktop dac). I'm more interested in the differences between the Apogee Groove Black vs the Apogee Groove Anniversary Edition. Do you have any info about that?

 

[clinkzclinkz]

I already understand the difference between the dragonfly products and the Apogee Groove (mobile vs desktop dac). I'm more interested in the differences between the Apogee Groove Black vs the Apogee Groove Anniversary Edition. Do you have any info about that?

Sorry I didnt do much homework on the golden one and according to the spec which SNR only improves 2 db means almost no gap between them only for marketing.

 

[ChillPill]

The Website mentions the following in its Knowledge Base, does it mean It would NOT support my 1more Triple Drivers ?

Multi-driver Balanced Armature IEMs with Groove

Apogee does not recommend the Apogee Groove for use with multi-driver balanced armature in-ear monitors. Due to the design of the balanced armature drivers and crossover networks used in this type of headphone, the Groove’s Constant Current Drive amplifier technology may result in uneven frequency response when used with certain models.

Could someone confirm this for me, as I have a friend picking an Apogee Groove from abroad in a couple of days for me.
I could stall my decision on getting it, if that is the case.

 

[ra990]

At this point, I would say there are better options - especially for these types of IEMs. I still use the Groove once in a while, but the DAC in it is very outdated now. The current drive amp on it is good, especially for planars. I wish they would work on an updated version with a 9028 or 9038 DAC and a more powerful amp, maybe battery powered instead of USB powered.

 

[Josef Parran]

9018s = 9018

Can I ask where you got info to confirm this?

 

[ra990]

Anyone have any experience using the Groove's headphone output as a line out to an external amp?

 

[LeonardS]

Anyone have any experience using the Groove's headphone output as a line out to an external amp?

You can look at post 261 in this thread, he uses it as a line out

and at post 244 and on there is more discussion of using this as a line out.

I know, old thread!

 

[ra990]

You can look at post 261 in this thread, he uses it as a line out

and at post 244 and on there is more discussion of using this as a line out.

I know, old thread!

Thanks but I got the official response from Apogee support, which was that it puts out way more than line level at highest volume, so not really recommended for inputs requiring line level.

 

[Earbones]

Just picked up a Groove. This is a frustratingly good DAC/Amp. I’ve never used such a superb-sounding, beautifully designed, solidly constructed device that also feels like it was rushed to market before a major deal-breaker issue was addressed.

Simply put, just sitting there and not even playing music, my Groove drew roughly 1% of my Macbook’s power supply every two minutes. That equals a total power drain in around 3 1/2 hours. For a device spec’d to play 12 hours of video on a charge. Again, the Groove was just sitting there, not even playing music. I can only imagine what playing music might draw.

Bottom line, this is a travel-size DAC/Amp that cannot travel. It just draws too much power to be of any use, unless your laptop is plugged into a power source... Which defeats the point of the tiny form-factor entirely. If I am somewhere where I can plug my laptop in, I’m most likely somewhere where a larger DAC/Amp can be used. The Apogee Groove’s minuscule form factor seems to promise flights, train trips, long Uber rides, etc... But it can’t realistically deliver those.

I just get the feeling that Apogee built the prototype, and someone said “man, this really needs a battery to be of any use to anyone”, and the rest of the designers were like “It’s 95% of the way there, let’s just call it good enough”. And you know, they were half right... It is 95% of the way there. But that last 5%, that battery-power redesign they decided to skip... That’s what makes it not good enough.

A damn shame. Apogee, if you ever decide to do the Groove right, I’ll be the first in line to get a battery-powered one. But for now, I must reluctantly return mine.

EDIT:

So after the initial two uses, battery drain has improved dramatically. The unit is also getting far less hot. I am at a loss to explain this... Perhaps it needed burn in? Not real-not-real audiophile burn-in, that always seems to inexplicably improve sound rather than degrade it, lol... But like actual burn-in... maybe a dot too much solder somewhere, and the power was being drawn excessively before it evened out? Much better now.

So with that issue fixed, I can unhesitatingly recommend this DAC. This is a fantastic little device and well worth $199... I definitely prefer it to the Dragonfly Red. It has a tighter, less bassy presentation. Superb with the Campfire Atlas.

 

[pmpmpm]

Did anyone compare the Groove to the newer generation of Chi-Fi thumb-drive / dongle dacs?

When I last listened to one about a year ago with a T90 it blew my mind. Now I own a HD800S and am looking for a DAC. Currently I feed it with an Apogee Duet but I wonder if the set-up can be improved. I'm not looking for a super sterile neutral representation but for a lively sound instead. Thoughts?

 

[Moak]

PHA-3 sounds better in that regards.

Here's my little hack.

Could you tell me why it is not working? It is the same constellation like yours...

 

[BobMonkhouse]

I could be wrong by I believe your USB splitter cable is different. It seems your cable charges the phone using the battery bank while the Groove is using the phone data and power. The other one uses the battery bank to power the Groove directly while it uses just the data from the phone.

 

[Moak]

I could be wrong by I believe your USB splitter cable is different. It seems your cable charges the phone using the battery bank while the Groove is using the phone data and power. The other one uses the battery bank to power the Groove directly while it uses just the data from the phone.

Yes, that‘s exactly correct!!! That was the failure. I took the wrong cable. I bought another and it is working, now!
Thank you!

 

[BobMonkhouse]

Which cable worked for you? Rarely I use my Groove powered by my phone but would like to try it with a separate battery pack.