[fkclo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkjames /img/forum/go_quote.gif as a chinese, I think one problem here is that "MADE IN CHINA" is somewhat considered same as "cheap in price & quality" in people's mind. Even many chinese thinks this is the case. So the circle is: some chinese bulit some brilliant product, which will obviously increase the cost, to even maybe 2/3 of the same quality product from the US. So people will think "oh, damn, that is only 'MADE IN CHINA', so I may as well go for the US version (without even listening to the chinese one)"; as a result, in order to sustain, the chinese will have to reduce the product price, as low as where reaching a point that quality must also degrade, subsequently damaging its repution. In fact, little dot in chinese domestic market isn't doing so well (or, IMO, not as well as in the US market), because people still think it is a bit "over priced". I rekon Chinese can no doubt build great amps (darkvoice for instance), but just walking out of the MADE IN CHINA = LOW QUALITY = CHEAP PRICE isn't that simple.

The fact is China, for the most part, is still a developing country and selling a US$300 high-end amp is still considered out of reach by most audiophiles in the country. That's why many Chinese producers are producing two versions of the same product - a "domestic" version, which uses lower grade components - to cater for the local market which expects affordable price (relative to income level), and an "export" or "Special" version which use better brand & higher quality parts to cater for the higher expectation of overseas market.

This is quite ironic when we look at the Japanese market - where Japan only model usually have more features and higher price, than the export version of the same product. ( This is why a lot of Hong Kong folks are shopping for electronics in Japan. ). I think in the end it is about positioning in the international market place.

FWIW.
F. Lo

 

[zotjen]

I guess my standard for buying a Chinese made, high-end product would be:

1. Is the company well-established and reputable for producing high quality merchandise?
2. Do they have U.S. distributors and dealers that I can purchase from?
3. Do they have ample local U.S. customer support in case service is needed?

Frankly, I'm just not familiar with any of the Chinese companies producing gear. And I certainly wouldn't order something that I would need to ship back to China if it needed repairs. I don't feel I'm being biased in any way. I see myself as a smart consumer. For example, I wouldn't buy a high-end product from a Canadian company if it didn't meet the above criteria either.

 

[fc911c]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif For you're price you're going to struggle, given that wages are higher in Japan and Germany than in China and Russia. If you can afford a bit more, maybe one of these or one of these? Both can be found for under $700.

hey what's with the spaghetti strainer ?

 

[penguindude]

Maybe the guy should also consider ridding himself of his underwear, and probably most of the textiles and electronics in his house?

 

[penguindude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkjames /img/forum/go_quote.gif as a chinese, I think one problem here is that "MADE IN CHINA" is somewhat considered same as "cheap in price & quality" in people's mind. Even many chinese thinks this is the case. So the circle is: some chinese bulit some brilliant product, which will obviously increase the cost, to even maybe 2/3 of the same quality product from the US. So people will think "oh, damn, that is only 'MADE IN CHINA', so I may as well go for the US version (without even listening to the chinese one)"; as a result, in order to sustain, the chinese will have to reduce the product price, as low as where reaching a point that quality must also degrade, subsequently damaging its repution. In fact, little dot in chinese domestic market isn't doing so well (or, IMO, not as well as in the US market), because people still think it is a bit "over priced". I rekon Chinese can no doubt build great amps (darkvoice for instance), but just walking out of the MADE IN CHINA = LOW QUALITY = CHEAP PRICE isn't that simple.

That is indeed often the case. However, don't forget that several decades ago, MADE IN JAPAN also means "cheap in quality and price." A country and its industrialization needs time to develop and every country needs to go through a "cheap crap" stage before being able to move onto a better image in the world. Right now, it seems that we already don't have a choice to move away from MADE IN CHINA stuff, whether it is expensive or not.

 

[freakmax]

Well , talking about products made in China, I wanna share my exp about this.

Today I bought the Triple fi 10 from my local headphone shop.Maybe I was unlucky but I felt bad about this really.

The first one was a defective.Yeah it's brand new and sealed.
Once I got home ,I tried them immediately.
It seemed the left side was not working properly.It's too muddy and theres' no hiss at all compared to the right side(out of ipod shuffle 1st gen).
So I went back to the shop and they gave me a new one.(very good shop really)
The second triple fi works flawlessly but there are some cosmetic flaws on the blue plastic.

I don't think this was double unlucky.
There must be somthing else.....

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by riceboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree that so many products are made in China. From there you just have to hope that the Quality Control is good. Look at the D2000s for example. Just my 2 cents

People love to jump on China over Denon's failure:

Denon engineering specified the connectors/locktite, not China.

Denon chose/manages the outsourcing facility/relationship, or built/staffs the plant, not China.

Denon QC did not adequately inspect, sample, or test components and the product off the line, not China.

The ultimate responsibility for products released under the Denon brand is Denon's, not China's. Somehow, people have arrived at the conclusion that this is a fault of the Chinese people. It is not. It is the fault of the company that happens to be operating in China.

How do so many people overlook the obvious? Oh, yeah, thinking is harder than falling back on gut prejudice.

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakmax /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think this was double unlucky. There must be somthing else.....

Yeah, the company must not be doing a good job with their QC. Why didn't you return them and get a different brand? Returning both and voting with your feet is the only way a manufacturer is going to get the message that something is wrong. The company certainly doesn't care about QC given the chance, so why reaffirm their behavior?

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardstyler /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yep I think so too. Everytime I see a thread like this I think about racism and discrimination. It actually pisses me off when people say they would rather buy American, German, Japanese than Mexican, Polish, Chinese made product.

x2.

The world hates us because we look down our noses at everyone else. No, they didn't just start hating us because of Regan/Bush; it was going on before that. It's because our population is closed-minded and arrogant. OP, thank you for perpetuating the stereotyping of America. You do more harm to our country than China.

Oh and I'm conservative by the way, not some red-commie-left wing loon.

 

[insidiousness]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dept_of_Alchemy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didn't know we were judging an amp by the color of its (designer's) skin rather than the content of its character/innards. I can understand buying domestic/locally, but deciding racially seems a bit unamerican.

Race card idiot!

 

[Bootleg]

Globalization has made exotic and beautiful asian women available to fat white guys the world over...so it can't be all that bad.

...but I digress.

 

[Letsrock]

I recall about 12 year ago I had the experience of returning 2 Nokia phones as they were defected.
They were made in Finland.

 

[bhd812]

The audio products from the China area of this planet have mostly Great cases..I mean cases that an American builder could not do for double if not triple the price of the entire made amp.

There are amazingly fine examples of products from China also while still retaining the "cheap" cost. anything Cayin will have it (which makes Prima luna stuff) or anything Shanling will also have it (correct me if i am wrong but some Meir amps are made by them?...not sure about that). Great sounding products with Great quality in and out.

the lighting industry has always loved products from China but until the last few years the stuff from there was complete crap..stuff from American dj or Chauvet were just re branded China low budget fixtures while in the later years Martin professional opens a factory there and provides the Denmark lighting quality at the china prices..back in the day to buy cheap fixture made in Denmark you paid $750..but today for a comparable fixture still made by martin only from China you can pay $215. this is only going back a few years btw.

I am dealing with a few companies direct from hong kong and china now myself, mostly LED lighting for amazingly cheap..and i mean amazingly. but the quality in the lights are there..then again how can someone screw up a light with a few LED's in it?..


anyway back on topic..
if you cut out the countries from your Audio experience is your choice, but the only one that hurts in the end is your experience with sound and your personal audio enjoyment for reasons your ears really could not care about..
do your ears the favor and choose with them, they can look past further then our eyes or stereotypes ever can.

 

[Firevortex]

y do i have the feeling this guy is trolling? like many have said. its all about QC and defective products can happen with any brand. you cant really live with out "made in china" those days. as a western consumer i say thank god for "made in china".

 

[Bootleg]

word