Anyone lose control of their car.
Dec 16, 2009 at 2:33 PM Post #61 of 79
Oh yeah, many (50+) times. But luckily without any major damage...
I have even hydroplaned with the motorcycle, during acceleration on wet tarmac. The rear tire lost traction and I hit the rev limiter (12.500 rpm) in a split-second.
 
Dec 16, 2009 at 3:41 PM Post #62 of 79
Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Oh yeah, many (50+) times. But luckily without any major damage...
I have even hydroplaned with the motorcycle, during acceleration on wet tarmac. The rear tire lost traction and I hit the rev limiter (12.500 rpm) in a split-second.


I bet that was scary.
 
Dec 16, 2009 at 10:23 PM Post #63 of 79
Holy crap. You must be pro by now.
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Dec 16, 2009 at 11:25 PM Post #65 of 79
Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyb213 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Never have yet but then again having 4 wheel drive among other things helps to prevent hydroplaning


Not really, and it doesn't help you stop on ice either. I see more wrecked 4 wheel drive vehicles in snow storms than 2 wheel drive vehicles. 4 wheel drive helps you get moving, but it doesn't help you stop. A lot of idiots don't realize that and drive on slick roads as if they stop as easily as they can go.

The best example of that I've seen was on icy roads in Yosemite National Park. They don't salt so in places where the road is shaded, it tends to stay icy all winter. One winter when I was there, the only vehicle I saw in trouble was a 4 wheel drive SUV. It had spun out and tipped. It didn't flip only because it hit a tree, fortunately at low speed. The tree was about 3 feet from the Merced River. Had it not hit the tree, it would have been in the river.
 
Dec 16, 2009 at 11:28 PM Post #66 of 79
I wasn't talking about 4 wheel drive being a solemn reason I was talking about safety features such as traction control abs brakes and all that stuff and with 4 wheel drive power is more evenly distributed to the ground so you are less likely to spin your tires.
 
Dec 17, 2009 at 12:10 AM Post #67 of 79
Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyb213 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Never have yet but then again having 4 wheel drive among other things helps to prevent hydroplaning


Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Not really, and it doesn't help you stop on ice either. I see more wrecked 4 wheel drive vehicles in snow storms than 2 wheel drive vehicles. 4 wheel drive helps you get moving, but it doesn't help you stop. A lot of idiots don't realize that and drive on slick roads as if they stop as easily as they can go.

The best example of that I've seen was on icy roads in Yosemite National Park. They don't salt so in places where the road is shaded, it tends to stay icy all winter. One winter when I was there, the only vehicle I saw in trouble was a 4 wheel drive SUV. It had spun out and tipped. It didn't flip only because it hit a tree, fortunately at low speed. The tree was about 3 feet from the Merced River. Had it not hit the tree, it would have been in the river.


If you have AWD/4x4 with traction control via limited slip differential, it cuts down on traction loss due to hydroplaning for sure. However, at high speeds, hydroplaning in any car is definite. ABS is what will help any car stop faster in wet and slick conditions. Not the case in the dry. For loss of traction braking, it's best not to use the brakes suddenly. Coasting or engine braking to a stop is recommended. Brake use should be minimized.
 
Dec 17, 2009 at 1:47 AM Post #68 of 79
I don't have to worry about icy roads where I'm from but the roads do get slippery if there's a light shower of rain after a long dry spell, just enough to lift the oil and grease off the road but not enough to wash it away. I remember coming home from work one afternoon in such conditions not long after getting my licence and finding myself going sideways around a roundabout and heading directly towards an oncoming BMW. I managed to regain control but my heart was pumping afterwards. IMO, experience is the most important tool for regaining control in those circumstances. You should be able to adapt your driving style for the conditions and know the limits of your car so that you can judge when you are exceeding them.

In my family, we have two RWD cars and two FWD cars. My parents' cars have the electronic gizmos, mine don't. I think features such as traction control and stability control are useful driver aids but for most driving situations they shouldn't be necessary if the driver remains within the limits of the car and their driving ability. Some situations, such as black ice, are difficult to judge and it's here that they could prove to be life saving.

I think that, dynamically, FWD cars are better suited to inexperienced drivers and that understeer is a potentially less dangerous situation than oversteer. In the case of FWD understeer, the natural reaction to lift off the accelerator is usually all it takes to regain grip, whereas in an oversteering RWD vehicle, this could contribute further to oversteer.
 
Dec 17, 2009 at 2:03 AM Post #69 of 79
Quote:

Originally Posted by EtherealApril /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I think that, dynamically, FWD cars are better suited to inexperienced drivers and that understeer is a potentially less dangerous situation than oversteer. In the case of FWD understeer, the natural reaction to lift off the accelerator is usually all it takes to regain grip, whereas in an oversteering RWD vehicle, this could contribute further to oversteer.


I've found in my FWD car that understeer is actually worse if you take your foot off the accelerator. Quite scary in certain situations.

I agree that FWD is probably better for a beginner though. Many people who are not interested in the dynamic properties of their car would be more comfortable in a FWD. I rather like the way My Bug handles, because it has significantly larger rear tires, reducing the understeer issues of a rear engined car.
 
Dec 17, 2009 at 4:28 AM Post #70 of 79
Quote:

Originally Posted by notmuchcash /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've found in my FWD car that understeer is actually worse if you take your foot off the accelerator. Quite scary in certain situations.

I agree that FWD is probably better for a beginner though. Many people who are not interested in the dynamic properties of their car would be more comfortable in a FWD. I rather like the way My Bug handles, because it has significantly larger rear tires, reducing the understeer issues of a rear engined car.


Another reason why FWD cars have more understeer than other drivetrains is due to the weight ratio. FWD is typically front heavy. If more weight was transitioned to the rear, the handling would be much more neutral. Ideally, 50/50 is perfect. Staggered tire sizes like you said also help to reduce understeer. In a RWD, wider tires on the rear drive wheels help. In a FWD, wider tires on the front drive wheels help. However, staggering costs a little more, so most people stick same width tires all around. You can also increase and reduce understeer with tire pressure, but this is not the place to discuss this detailed stuff.
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Dec 17, 2009 at 4:41 AM Post #72 of 79
Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyb213 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Over steering is a much more dangerous thing for a non experienced driver for sure because once you cross that line no way to save it back
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It depends on the severity, but you can usually pull through with the proper maneuvers.
 
Dec 17, 2009 at 6:10 AM Post #74 of 79
Well practice makes perfect.
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