[DavidMahler]

Has anyone here ever made a frequency response graph of headphones pre and post burn-in to see any scientific evidence. I am curious? I know this is a sensitive and debated subject on head-fi if ever there was one. I'm not trying to start any arguments at all. I'm not sure whether or not I believe burn in really happens. But if someone could produce a graph of the exact same headphone pre and post burn in I think that would be really helpful and interesting to observe.

 

[digger945]

Would seeing a graph change the way a headphone sounds?
Headroom shows graphs for all thier headphones, I wonder which they use, before or after?
If Headroom can make an accurate graph showing the exact level of the entire frequency spectrum, it would stand to reason that they could very easily produce such a comparison.
The problem would be could you notice any difference in the before and after graphs.

 

[big-ban]

I'm planning to do some comparative measurements of my PRO 900. I've done some measurements in its current state that show a loudness curve with bass and treble being more than 10 db louder than the mids.
http://flauschigerbaer.jalbum.net/Fr.../pro_900_1.png
It has been suggested that these change MASSIVELY with burn-in (to the point of being almost balanced), so I'm wondering how much of this is true. I'm not entirely sure how much my PRO 900 has been used before, I'm the second owner.

 

[Currawong]

Ideally, you'd need to leave the headphones on the measuring head between when the before and after measurements were made, as changing the position, even slightly, would affect the measurements.

 

[big-ban]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ideally, you'd need to leave the headphones on the measuring head between when the before and after measurements were made, as changing the position, even slightly, would affect the measurements.

I'm afraid I won't be able to live through 300+ hours of non-stop white noise with the mics in my ears

I know positioning is important, but I have a preferred way of wearing them on my head when taking the measurements. This shouldn't be too much of a problem. There might be slight variations from take to take, but the real issue here is if burn-in changes sound drastically or marginally.
I could also provide measurements of different positions of the headphones on my head so everyone could see for themselves how much positioning really does change and how relevant it is to evaluating the effects of burn-in.
This is not a highly scientific method but it should be precise enough to give the big picture and to put things into the right perspective.

 

[slwiser]

Yes I have seen these with a GS1000 Grado if I remember correctly. This was done over a 200 hundred hours. I will attempt to local this link and get back.

Translated version of http://www.geocities.jp/mister_terch/zakki05aging.html

 

[metalears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes I have seen these with a GS1000 Grado if I remember correctly. This was done over a 200 hundred hours. I will attempt to local this link and get back. Translated version of http://www.geocities.jp/mister_terch/zakki05aging.html

So, I get that there occured no apparent changes in the GS1K's after the burn-in (actually break-in) period ?

 

[Byrnie]

No I've never seen a graph of the type you're describing but it sounds interesting.

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalears /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, I get that there occured no apparent changes in the GS1K's after the burn-in (actually break-in) period ?

I make no claims except what that page is attempting to say. It is the first that I found like that so it is what it is.

 

[Mecc]

I think I have an explanation for the "burn-in" regarding the GS1000. I believe changes, such as the highs softening, have something to do with the pads. I notice that the sound changes when you adjust the position of the phones. Move them towards your face, you get more treble presence, move them towards the back, more bass. Swap the pads to bowls, less soundstage and less harshness. Flat pads, lose the stoundstage and the harshness. So the changes could very well be the large pads molding to your head. It makes sense to me. Tip changes and fitting have a very big effect with the Westone 3 and these are very sensitive phones. I prefer the ESW10 positioned slighty towards my nose as opposed to on my earlobes. A lot of the burn-in some of us are perceiving may just be due to the headphone fitting/molding to our heads. I don't really believe in burn-in myself.

 

[DayoftheGreek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif Has anyone here ever made a frequency response graph of headphones pre and post burn-in to see any scientific evidence. I am curious? I know this is a sensitive and debated subject on head-fi if ever there was one. I'm not trying to start any arguments at all. I'm not sure whether or not I believe burn in really happens. But if someone could produce a graph of the exact same headphone pre and post burn in I think that would be really helpful and interesting to observe.

Even if this gets done, it will not prove anything to the people that it would need to prove it to. They will still claim to hear the effects of burn in, no matter what the results, IMO. "This graph must be wrong, because I can still hear a difference," etc.

You know the deal.

 

[Cool_Torpedo]

You'll probably won't notice the changes on a simple frequency response graph. I've seen burn-in measurements on speakers' woofers and what changes most is the distortion pattern and its quantity. I've not seen that on headphones though, however it's quite likely that dynamic headphones behave similarly.

 

[donunus]

yah and if graphs look different, people will just say its because of the pads or wrong placement or whatever other reason.... My suggestion to all that don't believe in burn in is to give it a rest and don't spoil peoples fun when they say the cans sounded better after 300 hours. I know I believe in burn in but I wont say anyone else should unless they can hear it for themselves

 

[moonboy403]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Even if this gets done, it will not prove anything to the people that it would need to prove it to. They will still claim to hear the effects of burn in, no matter what the results, IMO. "This graph must be wrong, because I can still hear a difference," etc. You know the deal.

Just curious, which headphones did you have that did not benefit from burn-in?

I asked this because I'm a believer in burn-in and experienced this first hand. However, some headphones benefited a lot more from burn-in and burn-in seem to not have any effect on some headphones. I think that alone takes care of the brain-adjusting-period argument.

Take the Denon D2000 that I had, upon first listening, I was very unimpressed out of my iBasso D2 Boa. The most notable flaw was the extremely recessed mids which my gf concurred. Then I just threw the D2000 into my closet playing music continuously without having listened to it for probably 4 days or so. After that, I re-listened to the same songs I listened to before with the same volume on the Boa (12 o'clock) and I was blown away since the mids improved exponentially although it was still slightly recessed. I had my gf listened to it again and asked her what she thinks of the D2000 now and she came up with the same conclusion that I had without me telling her anything.

On the other hand, my RE1 did not benefit from burn-in as much as the D2000, if at all after burn-in. I could hardly tell the changes.

 

[LnxPrgr3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo /img/forum/go_quote.gif You'll probably won't notice the changes on a simple frequency response graph.

For some of the claimed benefits of burn-in I've read about on here I'd expect a change in frequency response. Of course, if we're measuring, why not measure distortion too? It would make the picture slightly less incomplete.

I'd like to see burn-in effectively measured, not to prove or disprove its existence as much as to objectively describe it if it does. In the end, hearing is believing, but I'd like to better understand why people hear what they do, and I'm somewhat surprised we don't see more investigation into this area.