[TigzStudio]

I couldn't find to many direct comparisons between Lavry DA11 specifically, nor DA10 to any Audio GD DACs.

Im basically torn between a Lavry DA11 vs. a Audio GD Reference 5 at the moment.

btw the ref 5 would be acss to my Audio-gd Roc.



So has anyone been able to compare the two brands? Or have you listened to both? Thanks!

 

[.Sup]

they would stack nicely together

 

[noinimod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigzStudio /img/forum/go_quote.gif I couldn't find to many direct comparisons between Lavry DA11 specifically, nor DA10 to any Audio GD DACs. Im basically torn between a Lavry DA11 vs. a Audio GD Reference 5 at the moment. btw the ref 5 would be acss to my Audio-gd Roc. So has anyone been able to compare the two brands? Or have you listened to both? Thanks!

I suggest reading up on the way both DACs were designed, maybe that'll give you some insight.

IMHO, the lavry gold is where it's at, not the da10/11/blue. Btw, the gold is a r2r dac just like the AG ref5, while its cheaper siblings are sigma delta. Maybe that should count for something

 

[Currawong]

I've only owned the DA10, and the Reference 1 toasts it thoroughly. I would like to compare it to the DA11, but I think with the Gold would be a more apt comparison. Unfortunately most hi-fi in Japan is Luxman, Esoteric and the like, so it's unlikely I'll ever have the chance to. I'm willing to bet the Ref 5 gives the DA11 (which is one of the few DACs I'm actually still interested in trying) a run for its money, just on spec.

 

[sk3383]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noinimod /img/forum/go_quote.gif I suggest reading up on the way both DACs were designed, maybe that'll give you some insight. IMHO, the lavry gold is where it's at, not the da10/11/blue. Btw, the gold is a r2r dac just like the AG ref5, while its cheaper siblings are sigma delta. Maybe that should count for something

I completely agree!!

Dan Lavry's DA10 & DA11 are great examples of what sigma delta chips can do, but in his Gold series equipment he uses r2r and DSP. Audio-gd uses similar technology in most of their DACs. For the money, I would personally go for the multi bit DAC setup in the Audio-gd Ref 5.

Its just a bonus that the units will match asthetically and also give you the capability to use ACSS (cast technology).

 

[El_Doug]

Why the obsession with antiquated, lower resolution, and far less linear technology? Unless you are capable of hearing 40khz attenuated by -90db, why the dedication to R2R?

OP, I would of course recommend that you try to demo both DACs... but choosing one over another due to the fact that it uses older tech makes little to no sense

 

[realmassy]

Could someone explain me what R2R means? Thanks

 

[TigzStudio]

supposedly,
"advantages of R2R DACs are lower noise and higher accuracy. " at least compared to string design.


Digital to Analog Conversion

Digital-to-analog Conversion is everywhere | Industrial Control Designline

 

[TigzStudio]

Looking through the description of the Lavry Gold in their PDF,

"The DA2002 provides many enhancements to the classical resistor weighting architecture. A triple segmented design improves the accuracy of the 10 most significant bits. Short-term accuracy is maintained by keeping the critical components at constant temperature in a linearly controlled oven. Long term accuracy is achieved by extensive use of continuous automatic selfcalibration. A large number of extra codes enable the addition of digital DC offset to the signal path without signal clipping. The DC offset provides superior low level detail by keeping low level signals away from the most significant bit transitions. A quad switch deglitcher circuit removes the
unwanted transition glitch energy. In both PLL Mode and CrystalLock™ Mode, the DA2002 eliminates jitter in the incoming data stream by use of a pullable crystal oscillator."


So one of the competitive advantages over the Audio-gd ref 5 I assume would be the,

Oven Control
"The PCM DAC is constructed of custom made laser trimmed thin film resistor networks; yet any resistor is subject to short term drift due to temperature variations and long term drift due to component aging. The resistor networks are kept at a constant temperature by a linearly controlled heating element. (A bang-bang controller, such as a home thermostat is undesirable because it produces turn on and turn off surges-- thus audible kicks.) Keeping the resistors at constant temperature overcomes resistor dependency on environmental temperature variations."


quoted from the Lavry Gold PDF off their site.


Anyone have some technical details on the Ref 5 ? From the site all I can find is just kinda general statements about quality of parts used, acss, etc.

 

[TigzStudio]

Can anyone tell me what justifies the $8,500 price tag of the da2002? is it just unique design and proprietary capabilities?

 

[noinimod]

I found this great thread with Gordon Rankin (Wavelength Audio) giving his 2 cents on sigma delta. The entire thread's a nice read, one guy asks why bother with r2r since sigma delta is superior on specs. Some interesting stuff there
DIYHiFi.org • View topic - I/V on the PCM1704

Rankin:
"It's the damn filter in the 179x series that bugs me and the quasi sigma multibit convertor.

I dunno does anyone else feel like TI/BB is off their rocker with the 179x designs? I mean sure they proabably test well but at what cost. You know I talk to these guys pretty much. When I tell them about High End audio and how we use their parts you would not believe the stuff I hear. The most common statement is why the H*** would you do that. I say because it sounds better. Have you ever tried that? "

"Well the 179x are well the bas**** word comes to mind.

Ok so it's expensive to make a true sign magnitude dac like the PCM1704 and even harder to make one right like the AD1862.

But let's face it segmented dac... Ok first they send it through a piece of crap 8 times oversampling filter then.... what is it like 6 bit magnitude type. You know I would have loved to be at that meeting... "

 

[sk3383]

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Doug /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why the obsession with antiquated, lower resolution, and far less linear technology? Unless you are capable of hearing 40khz attenuated by -90db, why the dedication to R2R? OP, I would of course recommend that you try to demo both DACs... but choosing one over another due to the fact that it uses older tech makes little to no sense

No obsession for r2r equipment. I have heard quite a few sigma delta implementations and I have been really impressed by a couple including the CEC DA53 (PCM1796) & Lavry DA10.

To show you I am not biased, I am purchasing a CEC CD3800 (PCM1798), not quite as good DAC section as the DA53 but a great CD player/DAC non the less.

I do own Audio-gd gear, however I purchased my DAC-19DSP out of pure curiousity...I had to hear for myself what all the fuss was about. To my ears, it sounds absolutely incredible.

As El_Doug said, you should really demo both and decide for yourself!!!

 

[Eagle Eye]

Honestly I do not know much about technical things but I figured I would try the Reference 5 as it is a perfect match for the ROC. I had the PS Audio DL III with stage 4 mods and I didn't think it did much more than the DACMAGIC. I hope this Balanced, using ACSS system makes my ATH W5000 balanced phones come alive. By the way it was shipped today, Yeah!!!!!!

 

[techenvy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle Eye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Honestly I do not know much about technical things but I figured I would try the Reference 5 as it is a perfect match for the ROC. I had the PS Audio DL III with stage 4 mods and I didn't think it did much more than the DACMAGIC. I hope this Balanced, using ACSS system makes my ATH W5000 balanced phones come alive. By the way it was shipped today, Yeah!!!!!!

this is good to know, as i have been considering dac magic (mainly for its inputs) as well as the ps audio dl III,
and do you know of anything else that comes close to the magic's versatile inputs?

i also had been considering more simple smaller design like
http://www.pacificvalve.us/PVFathom.html

and the tiny and appealing fubar 4 plus?

or am i just waiting my time, ideally id like a dac with toslink, coaxial, and bnc input, and standard rca outs the icing on the icing on the cake would be a digital passthru of some kind coaxial or toslink, dosent matter as i have a converter. adn i dont need xlr or even usb,
i have given up on finding a dac with everything i need plus usb, because from where im sitting they all read muffled, did i miss one?

cheers for versatility

 

[realmassy]

You could consider the Berhringer SRC2496 (BEHRINGER: DEQ2496).
It is a DA and AD converter, upsampler, has an high precision clock generator to remove jitter, XLR output...And it's cheap.
I'm thinking of this as upsampler between my source and the dac.