Anybody else using the S.M.S.L M200?

[gimmeheadroom]

I did not know that you had greater requirements then that of which the M200 could provide. Is it features your looking for more, or component quality?

I like something with build quality and also the slanted design bothers me. I'm sure it is perfectly fine for the money. Just not my cup of tea.

 

[340519]

So happy to hear somebody on head-fi make such a statement. The VAST majority of properly implemented DACs will all sound the same. Our hearing brain is remarkable, but it just is nowhere near powerful enough to discriminate tiny, tiny differences, infinitesimally tiny differences, and doing so through music that we are intently focused on listening to no less. How anybody can believe they can hear such differences is beyond me. Yes if the analogue stage is poorly done (even intentionally so) or there is major errors with say noise over USB, and not these tiny little measured numbers people kid themselves into thinking they hear, but actual audible noise due to design errors, sure, those things can be heard. But we are in the golden age of audio right now, even affordable gear can be designed and built to achieve audio transparency.

I think it is great that you realize this and can admit that you aren't able to hear the differences, instead correctly identifying the true value proposition that matters, connectivity and control features. Once the DAC is at the level of accuracy that the M200 clearly measures at, it really doesn't matter if there is room to get FFT distortion products lower, they are already inaudible anyway so who really cares? If you can't hear it, you can't hear it. I will never get suckered into a mega buck DAC. The M400 is easily as much money as I would ever dream of investing in a DAC. Instead I would put the money saved from not being taken in by over-priced esoteric DACs into something like headphones that can and do have signatures.

Great post. Yes I can admit I cannot hear any difference between dacs. I wish I could but alas.

 

[340519]

I like something with build quality and also the slanted design bothers me. I'm sure it is perfectly fine for the money. Just not my cup of tea.

It's funny because I really like the design.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

It's funny because I really like the design.

It looks good with the SMSL amp, I must admit

 

[340519]

I think they look really cool together.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I think they look really cool together.

Yes they do. I saw that pic earlier, it's a nice match.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Great post. Yes I can admit I cannot hear any difference between dacs. I wish I could but alas.

Probably a lot of differences in DACs are more about build quality, features, connectivity, support community, UI etc than sound. I don't listen to my equipment critically and I don't even compare my equipment. Not that I don't pick up some interesting differences over time but I'm not into hairsplitting about this or that component. Some pieces of gear just work and sound great and are a pleasure to use. It is probably a personal thing for each owner to build a set of gear he is happy with.

 

[340519]

And the best part about the m200 bluetooth is that I can actually use the Tidal app and not that terrible UAPP, which Ihave to with the usb connection to the benchmark to overrule the Samsung's internal dac. Acccch.

 

[StarTreker]

I think they look really cool together.

This is the first I am seeing this pic from you, at least that I can recall, so I really appreciate it! Once you have both of these units, the only question you have to ask is, who's sleeping on the top, and who's sleeping on the bottom? HAHA! The AMP has dominance, so its on the top I see. I also see that Sony has made its presence known, its like, don't forget about me now. HEHE

I've noticed that your display is showing a 48 sample rate as well! I set my PC to output to 96KHZ for the sample rate, and it never changed. Since I am getting my signal from the same fiber connection as before, from the TV, I discovered something interesting. As soon as my TV is turned on, and before the computer has booted up, its showing 48 in the window. Which suggests its the TV that is limiting the sample rate. I went into the TV options for audio, it does allow me to change it from Auto, to PCM, to Dolby Digital, Dolby DTS, ETC. But there were no sample rate options.

Looks like, if I want a higher sample rate then 48, I would need to directly connect it to my computer via USB. But that would not be a fun endever, cause first I would need to buy a long USB cable, preferably a high speed one for large amount of data transfer, and then I would have to probably hunt down a driver for Linux, and thats less likely to find then Windows so ya. But when doing research, I've learned that a sample rate of 48 is considered lossless for FLAC files. Well, then thats good enough for me!

See how easy it is to get caught up in the little things? Sample rates got me until I discovered 48 was good enough. LOL


And Gimmeheadroom, I hear ya, you want greater build quality, and no slanted personalities. Well, you could go for the M400, higher build quality, and no slanted personalities. Or you could go with some other brand. Just make sure you get something your really going to want, do plenty of research, leave nothing to chance.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

This is the first I am seeing this pic from you, at least that I can recall, so I really appreciate it! Once you have both of these units, the only question you have to ask is, who's sleeping on the top, and who's sleeping on the bottom? HAHA! The AMP has dominance, so its on the top I see. I also see that Sony has made its presence known, its like, don't forget about me now. HEHE

I've noticed that your display is showing a 48 sample rate as well! I set my PC to output to 96KHZ for the sample rate, and it never changed. Since I am getting my signal from the same fiber connection as before, from the TV, I discovered something interesting. As soon as my TV is turned on, and before the computer has booted up, its showing 48 in the window. Which suggests its the TV that is limiting the sample rate. I went into the TV options for audio, it does allow me to change it from Auto, to PCM, to Dolby Digital, Dolby DTS, ETC. But there were no sample rate options.

Looks like, if I want a higher sample rate then 48, I would need to directly connect it to my computer via USB. But that would not be a fun endever, cause first I would need to buy a long USB cable, preferably a high speed one for large amount of data transfer, and then I would have to probably hunt down a driver for Linux, and thats less likely to find then Windows so ya. But when doing research, I've learned that a sample rate of 48 is considered lossless for FLAC files. Well, then thats good enough for me!

See how easy it is to get caught up in the little things? Sample rates got me until I discovered 48 was good enough. LOL


And Gimmeheadroom, I hear ya, you want greater build quality, and no slanted personalities. Well, you could go for the M400, higher build quality, and no slanted personalities. Or you could go with some other brand. Just make sure you get something your really going to want, do plenty of research, leave nothing to chance.

I think it is smart to run the amp on top when possible although often it is not possible. Thanks @StarTreker I know what I want but my audio budget is often at odds with wanting a roof over my head, food, etc.

By the way, Windows audio stack is annoying and without device drivers for each specific device, you will get what you set the Windows audio control panel to. Apps that use ASIO or WASAPI drivers get around the problem and you'll get a true sample rate. By the way from what I read 48KHz is bad news for most devices because it introduces some noise. It is probably better to set Windows audio to 16/44.1 for the times you have to use it like when you don't have an ASIO or WASAPI device driver. For a TV I would be surprised if you have any good audio options. If it does true Redbook that is as good as audio is going to get out of a TV probably.

 

[Dannemand]

Gentlemen,

I've been on the fence for a while about the M200. Was almost ready to pull the trigger when it came out, but held back, hoping for some explanation or resolution of the significant differences between its official measurements from SMSL and the measurements posted on ASR. But I am resigned to the fact that we'll probably never get an explanation for that.

I too am puzzled why there is so little chatter about the M200, as it sounds to be a capable device for its money: It has an odd sibling in SMSL M300 MkII, which uses the same AK4497 -- and measures cleaner -- but has fewer inputs and less capable Bluetooth. And as previously noted, M400 is a significant step up pricewise, with AK4499 is being a very different kind of chip, requiring a more complex output stage with I/V conversion.

I would much appreciate input about how well it works as a preamp from those of you who use it to drive external speakers directly through a power amp.

I would feed the M200's XLR directly into a Bryston 2B LP Pro power amp and use it as preamp. And I wonder how well it compares to dedicated preamps.

@Sonic Defender: Have you tried plugging the M200 directly into your power amp and compared to the sound when playing through your preamp?

Thank you in advance!

 

[Sonic Defender]

Gentlemen,

I've been on the fence for a while about the M200. Was almost ready to pull the trigger when it came out, but held back, hoping for some explanation or resolution of the significant differences between its official measurements from SMSL and the measurements posted on ASR. But I am resigned to the fact that we'll probably never get an explanation for that.

I too am puzzled why there is so little chatter about the M200, as it sounds to be a capable device for its money: It has an odd sibling in SMSL M300 MkII, which uses the same AK4497 -- and measures cleaner -- but has fewer inputs and less capable Bluetooth. And as previously noted, M400 is a significant step up pricewise, with AK4499 is being a very different kind of chip, requiring a more complex output stage with I/V conversion.

I would much appreciate input about how well it works as a preamp from those of you who use it to drive external speakers directly through a power amp.

I would feed the M200's XLR directly into a Bryston 2B LP Pro power amp and use it as preamp. And I wonder how well it compares to dedicated preamps.

@Sonic Defender: Have you tried plugging the M200 directly into your power amp and compared to the sound when playing through your preamp?

Thank you in advance!

Sorry mate, wish I could help but I only have an integrated amplifier so no dedicated preamp to try this with. I have had to move away from my home for four months while on a professional placement for my program so sadly I haven't been using my system for close to two months now.

 

[Dannemand]

Sorry mate, wish I could help but I only have an integrated amplifier so no dedicated preamp to try this with. I have had to move away from my home for four months while on a professional placement for my program so sadly I haven't been using my system for close to two months now.

No worries. Thank you for the super fast response. Hope your placement is going well!

Needless to say, I am interested in any input anybody else may have

 

[StarTreker]

Since I own the M200, I can give you some insight. The M200 simply has a pre-amp inside, but its not filled with unicorn magic. 0DB is max volume on the DAC, and all that does is maintain a full 2V line level for RCA, and 4.1V for XLR. So all you have to do is either plug the M200 into a speaker amp, or a headphone amp depending on your needs, and operate the volume from there.

Or you could use the remote that comes with the M200, and just adjust the volume using its pre-amp. And yes, I can confirm that the M200 is a very clean chip, but the best AMPS to use IMO, are ones that are THX certified, as they will provide you the cleanest noise floor. And in my experience using the S.M.S.L SP200 amp, is it provides a very nice clean noise floor, and is very analytical as well.

 

[Dannemand]

Since I own the M200, I can give you some insight. The M200 simply has a pre-amp inside, but its not filled with unicorn magic. 0DB is max volume on the DAC, and all that does is maintain a full 2V line level for RCA, and 4.1V for XLR. So all you have to do is either plug the M200 into a speaker amp, or a headphone amp depending on your needs, and operate the volume from there.

Or you could use the remote that comes with the M200, and just adjust the volume using its pre-amp. And yes, I can confirm that the M200 is a very clean chip, but the best AMPS to use IMO, are ones that are THX certified, as they will provide you the cleanest noise floor. And in my experience using the S.M.S.L SP200 amp, is it provides a very nice clean noise floor, and is very analytical as well.

Wow, awesome response here today. Thanks a lot!

What you describe is exactly how I would use the M200: XLR plugged directly into my Bryston to drive external PMC speakers, and adjust volume using the M200 remote. While I prefer the better design and more informative LDC display of SMSL M400 (or the new MU-9, or even the older M300 MkII), the old-fashioned LED display of the M200 is probably better for my use, as I can see the large letters across the living room.

So I am cool with the limited feature set of the M200's preamp. In fact, I prefer that!

The Bryston 2B LP Pro is a very clean and capable power amp. SQ wise it would not be the bottleneck in this chain. Unusually for a power amp, it actually has volume pots (plural, as in one for each channel) but the M200 would save me from having to get up and adjust them.

My concern is whether the M200's output stage is well enough suited to function as a "real" preamp and drive a power amp like this directly. Of course 4.1V is plenty of top end power: The Bryston has 0.775V input sensitivity, so that isn't my concern. How the M200 SOUNDS at 25% volume compared to a dedicated preamp, THAT is my concern.

In the end I'll probably just buy it and check it out. But I am still very interested in observations from anybody who have tried it directly into a power amp.

Thanks again for all the great response