[crowdedthehouse]

Just curious to know is there a point in running a balanced output from a balanced amp when the input is single ended?
 
For example, running LCD2 cans though a balanced connection from an ALO Rx Mk III amp which is conencted to a non balanced AK120 source. 
 
What would be the differences if you did an A/B test when switching the cables/headphone output from balanced and single ended?
 
Thanks.

 

[cjl]

In general, there's not really any point to running headphones balanced. It won't really hurt anything (aside from your wallet), but it won't help anything either.

 

[crowdedthehouse]

Do you mean specifically in this set up method or balanced in general regardless of setup?
 
Because there's no big cost in running it this way with the example I gave. The only thing that would change from going balanced and non balanced would be an adapter. Am I right in this regard?

 

[castleofargh]

technically you'll get more voltage from the balanced output so if you need louder sound it might be he answer. but why not ask to people who own the rx mkIII what they experienced?
 
 
 
don't know what you meant by adapter, but if you can indeed adapt a SE jack to a balanced cable, you must never try to adapt a balanced plug to a single ended cable(common "ground" for left and right).

 

[cjl]

I mean balanced playback for headphones in general, regardless of the setup (unless you're running low level signals long distances, and need the common-mode noise rejection). Also, as castleofargh said, you have to be careful when using balanced to single ended (and vice versa) adapters, since in a normal TRS plug, the ground connection is common to both channels (and shorted together), while in a differential setup, having one end of each channel shorted like this can be a problem.

 

[crowdedthehouse]

Thanks for the info guys. I was going to post in the amp section but I was worried about biased opinions from owners who might not have real scientific reasoning. That's why I posted here hoping for scientific explanations from hopefully some more intelligent answers. Which I have gotten, so thanks!

I've never run balanced before and I am looking at purchasing the above equipment. So basically if i was to run balanced, I'd need an RWAK120B and a balanced connection from the amps mini balanced to the Lcd2? That would definitely hurt my wallet.

 

[cjl]

Honestly, the answer to that is "I'm not entirely sure". It's generally a bad idea to adapt a differential/balanced amp to a single ended headphone plug, since that is basically shorting one side of both channels together (and unlike a single ended amp, that side is not grounded on both channels). However, on the input side, it is possible to sometimes adapt a single ended output to balanced input, so long as the balanced amp is OK with having an input with a significant DC offset relative to ground with one side of the input shorted together (and to ground). This setup should be fine, generally, but sometimes audiophile gear has a tendency to go for esoteric and finicky circuit designs for no apparent reason.
 
Looking at pictures of that amp online, it appears to have both single ended and balanced inputs - can you not use the single ended TRS input and the balanced output at once? That would solve everything, but if the amp expects the type of connection to be the same on both sides, you're stuck with trying the adapter route.

 

[eugenius]

It's not a bad idea to have balanced headphone as it's not a bad idea to have a balanced preamp or a balanced amp. You can use a single ended input with a balanced amp, you need to convert it to balanced first. The amps that have single ended inputs do that internally.

You can make good amps either way but balanced gives you more power, less noise and more noise rejection. There is a valid argument that it's better invest in parts to make a better amp instead of going balanced but that doesn't apply to high end audio when the parts are supposed to be good enough already.

And with balanced there's an added benefit: you use XLR's instead of RCA's. XLR's are a much better connector than RCA.

Sent from my using Tapatalk

 

[cjl]

It's not a bad idea to have balanced headphone as it's not a bad idea to have a balanced preamp or a balanced amp. You can use a single ended input with a balanced amp, you need to convert it to balanced first. The amps that have single ended inputs do that internally.

You can make good amps either way but balanced gives you more power, less noise and more noise rejection. There is a valid argument that it's better invest in parts to make a better amp instead of going balanced but that doesn't apply to high end audio when the parts are supposed to be good enough already.

And with balanced there's an added benefit: you use XLR's instead of RCA's. XLR's are a much better connector than RCA.

Sent from my using Tapatalk

Balanced does give you more power, but that's usually not a problem with headphones anyways. It gives you twice the amp noise floor though (so it's usually noisier, not less noisy), and the interference rejection isn't a problem with line level signals over short distances. If you're running very low level signals over long distances, that can be important, but that shouldn't be the case with any headphone system anyways.

 

[eugenius]

Most amplifiers have 5-10dB less noise spec on the balanced outputs/inputs. They don't respect your theory ...

 

[StefanJK]

  Balanced does give you more power, but ...It gives you twice the amp noise floor though (so it's usually noisier, not less noisy).

What's the reasoning here?  Is is simply 'noise scales linearly with power' (probably not true for most noise, including the dominant noise we need to worry about here?), hence twice the power and twice the noise?  That seems too simple.  Also, 'usually noisier' seems like a large caveat.  Also, ground has noise in it too, right?  Or is ground noise too small to matter here?
 
Sorry, I'm a newbie jumping in.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Really need to quit saying that "balanced gives you more power." It's really misleading. An amp, "balanced" or single-ended, will deliver however much power the designer has designed it to deliver.

se

 

[castleofargh]

I don't think that ultimately balance can do anything a good SE amp can't (on short distance cables for headphones). but if you get a balanced amp, it does seem logic to use it balanced. else that means paying for some doubled components and not use them.

 

[cjl]

  What's the reasoning here?  Is is simply 'noise scales linearly with power' (probably not true for most noise, including the dominant noise we need to worry about here?), hence twice the power and twice the noise?  That seems too simple.  Also, 'usually noisier' seems like a large caveat.  Also, ground has noise in it too, right?  Or is ground noise too small to matter here?
 
Sorry, I'm a newbie jumping in.

Balanced is effectively just a pair of bridged amplifiers. Because a good ground connection has less noise than an amp, a single amp is lower noise than a pair of bridged amps of identical design. It also has half the output impedance. The bridged amps will have twice the slew rate, twice the maximum vrms capability, and a higher maximum power output (and steve: I'm specifically comparing a bridged/balanced amp setup to a single ended that consists of basically one half of the bridged amp setup with the other side connected to ground).

 

[Steve Eddy]

(and steve: I'm specifically comparing a bridged/balanced amp setup to a single ended that consists of basically one half of the bridged amp setup with the other side connected to ground).

But there's really no point or purpose in making such a comparison.

se