[KtoEto]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn Amazing. That is the perfect post for this thread!

Shaolin Soccer can be played in winter too, just one kick at the ball, and the whole playing field gets warmer...

 

[TheMedic00]

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychogentoo so what if a UFC champion went up against someone in real life (no rules) who was a master at eye-gouge-jitsu and bite-jitsu?

I know you were kidding, but the top fighters are amazing athletes and would easily be able to destroy a guy that was just biting, raking eyes and using low blows. If someone elevates an altercation by using eye gouges, etc. against a UFC/Pride level fighter, he better maim the guy with the first shot or he'll be carrying his teeth home in his stomach, guaranteed.

KR: True man, but they often wear shin pads when sparring to keep the leg kicks from being so brutal. It's great exercise for your legs and toughens your shins, but the possibility for injury to the legs would be higher than most, I agree.

ooheadsoo: Fedor is a beast. The guy looks like an out of shape slob at first glance, but he is an incredible athlete. Did you see the suplex Randleman gave him? That would have put me in a coma, yet Fedor shook it off like nothing. Insane. (Sorry for the off topic, panda).

 

[ipodstudio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 I don't know how many knucklheads I have come across that learned just enough martial arts to get their a*s kicked. and by that i mean the mindset of wanting to start crap only comes with the newbies that think once they learn a couple of techniiques they are ready to take on the world. "I can kick six feet high ! I AM the Bad Man !!!!" but the one thing you don't learn at first (and some never) is A-how to avoid trouble B-if trouble can not be avoided how to duck C-if B fails how to roll with a punch so it does little harm If both B and C fail learn "A" REAL good ! geting beat up because you think you are a tough guy due to a couple of Karate lesson under your belt is a real wake up call when you actually MEET a real tough guy. Martial arts is about discipline and keeping both mind and body in shape,not "who can i beat up" which usually gets the person thinking like that hospitalised

LOL! Seen a few of those, too, but I don't think we need worry about Saint.Panda there....

The various styles of kung-fu may be interesting for you, SP, or possibly kick-boxing. I haven't practised in some years myself but I intend to get back to it now after recent health troubles...

 

[Ticky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by till In my opinion, it is best to seek out an experienced teacher who is still close to the source of his art, meaning that he (or she) had a dedicated and experienced master himself -- most often, you only find that in people who went to the country where their art originated.

This is very (VERY) good advice.

I've been practicing karate for some time now and I can't emphasis how important the teacher is in your development. Or how difficult it is to find a good and knowledgeble teacher. focus on the teacher and not the name of the art.

I've gone to various seminars and joint practices with other arts and style. Honestly I think that if one look past the "aesthetic" differences, the principles are the same. After all, all martial arts are developed by humans to be used against humans.

As the saying goes "many paths up the mountain, one moon we see on top."


With regards to muay thai. I'll like to dispell some common misconception (which I myself also held in the past) that muay thai is a bit lacking in grappling techniques. I'm a newbie to muay thai, but I've been lucky to find a school that teaches traditional muay thai after a long search here in Bangkok. Let's just say that traditional muay thai is different to the muay thai you see on the Lumpini stadium on fight night. IMO traditional muay thai shares a lot of similarities with traditional karate and I dare say, kung fu. For instance, a riding-horse-like stance, and very little high kicks.

Which reminds me. I have to get my lazy arse back to practicing.

 

[psychogentoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMedic00 I know you were kidding, but the top fighters are amazing athletes and would easily be able to destroy a guy that was just biting, raking eyes and using low blows. If someone elevates an altercation by using eye gouges, etc. against a UFC/Pride level fighter, he better maim the guy with the first shot or he'll be carrying his teeth home in his stomach, guaranteed.

Of course, I was kidding when I said it. The point I was trying to drive at is that there is more to martial arts than just being able to "destory" someone. If I or anyone were to master "teppojitsu" one should be able to destory most out there from a 1000 yards away, UFC champ or not.

My point it the physical side of martial arts has to be tempered with equal parts if not more of the psychological/spiritual side of things, otherwise you just end up with a "machine". In my years of martial arts training, I believe that its not about what beats what or who can beat up who. The idea of not getting into a situation to lead you to use such methods is more important. Of course, if there is no other possible solution than to fight then so be it but knowing how to resolve conflict without the use of force is good philosophy to have. The type of martial art you train in, really doesn't matter if it leads you to a healthy body and mind. I really dislike the discussion of which martial art is better than the other. Just keep in mind that there will always be someone in the world who will be able to kick your ass, no matter what martial art(s) you have mastered.

 

[Genetic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychogentoo Just keep in mind that there will always be someone in the world who will be able to kick your ass, no matter what martial art(s) you have mastered.

And never forget also that we live in a small world...

Amicalement

 

[TheMedic00]

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychogentoo Of course, I was kidding when I said it. The point I was trying to drive at is that there is more to martial arts than just being able to "destory" someone. If I or anyone were to master "teppojitsu" one should be able to destory most out there from a 1000 yards away, UFC champ or not. My point it the physical side of martial arts has to be tempered with equal parts if not more of the psychological/spiritual side of things, otherwise you just end up with a "machine". In my years of martial arts training, I believe that its not about what beats what or who can beat up who. The idea of not getting into a situation to lead you to use such methods is more important. Of course, if there is no other possible solution than to fight then so be it but knowing how to resolve conflict without the use of force is good philosophy to have. The type of martial art you train in, really doesn't matter if it leads you to a healthy body and mind. I really dislike the discussion of which martial art is better than the other. Just keep in mind that there will always be someone in the world who will be able to kick your ass, no matter what martial art(s) you have mastered.

I know you were kidding, just pointing it out to people that still believe that an eyepoke and a groin shot will help them beat up a UFC champ. Yes, they do exist (likely to be the same guy that thinks he can play in the NFL because he works out and was decent in high school).

The people that are the best at fighting/martial arts usually tend to be very calm people, in my experience. It is the young guys that have trained for 6 months that are always looking for fights. I liked training for the workout, the friendships and because it was fun. I have no intentions to fight anyone, and most of the people who I've met that train feel the same. Like you pointed out, even a great fighter can have his life ended by someone with a gun/knife/lots of angry friends. Talk-jitsu is always the best way out

Now, for the spiritual side of it, that didn't interest me at all, but more power to those that it does. Anything that helps someone become a better, more complete person is good in my book.

 

[lini]

Bud Spencer's art of fighting appears to be one of the most elegant ones to me. I just wonder where to learn that...

Grinnings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini

 

[psychogentoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMedic00 The people that are the best at fighting/martial arts usually tend to be very calm people, in my experience. It is the young guys that have trained for 6 months that are always looking for fights. I liked training for the workout, the friendships and because it was fun. I have no intentions to fight anyone, and most of the people who I've met that train feel the same. Like you pointed out, even a great fighter can have his life ended by someone with a gun/knife/lots of angry friends. Talk-jitsu is always the best way out Now, for the spiritual side of it, that didn't interest me at all, but more power to those that it does. Anything that helps someone become a better, more complete person is good in my book.

I noticed that too. People who can keep their "cool" under fight type situations remember to use the techniques learned. Others tend to revert back to the "fight-or-flight" response and either flail around or just run away in a panic. Some people just have an ability to keep their cool, others it needs to be learned from years of training.

In any case, if you're enjoying training and are having fun with friends at the dojo no matter what martial art then its a win-win situation.

 

[pigmode]

This whole thread is dumb.

 

[mjg]

alot of people talk alot of ish.

Truth be told, circumstance are totally variable. If i have been in 25+ street fights i probablly have more practical experience then some guy who has been in so many karate tournaments at defending myself. Yet, all of the fighting and defense you can have (weapons, whatever, guns.) won't protect you at any given momment, or the one momment where it made a difference.

So speculating is pretty much a joke. The funniest part about it is people who play themselves up like they are hot stuff, meanwhile they never been in one street fight. If someone runs alot of talk, i usually take it with a grain of salt, and ironically the guy who talks so much is the guy who has the most to prove.

So superman vs mike tyson need not apply.

 

[Genetic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda I took a look at the ASVZ but for the next semester there's only "fitness boxing" and "fencing"

Now that your program is going strong for your complete transformation in the most dangerous man on earth, I will go back to one of your earlier comment about fencing.

I have practiced epee for many years, despite my complete devotion to my main sport tennis, and it's not as girly as it seems. In fact, during some heated fight there is many ways to inflict severe pain to the adversary. Remember the blade will only bend if presented in a certain way, if not, it will brake...and you could easily shish kebab your opponent....

Epee is not tough enough for you? Try saber.... your body will be marked with every hits you let pass your defense.

Want to test your respiratory capacity? Try to inhale/exhale through that mask.

The choice is yours between Bruce Lee and Zoro....

Amicalement

 

[Cyrillic]

saint.panda, I've practiced martial arts for a while, but am no expert. I can say that I have researched the various styles myself quite a bit. One place I can lead you to is: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...f86005d54ea1f7

That's part 1/4. It's very long, but has a lot of very good information. If you're interested in really being serious about the martial arts and not just being another western idiot (not to imply that you are), researching the topic well will be very beneficial. There is a TON of crap out there. The overwhelming majority of martial arts schools in the West and in America in particular are pure crap. They are all to often self proclaimed "masters", who either invented a style or mastered a style or made their own version or amalgamation of styles. Also, look out for the "McDojo's", the joints in strip malls which usually teach "karate", which isn't exactly a style, more like a category meaning 'open handed' (unarmed).

Also, after you research and get a better idea of what you exactly want, you should visit a few places. Hopefully visit at least three to get an idea of what is out there. The first place I went was total crap. It was in a stip mall, the "master" was fat, didn't seem to care much for his students, didn't do much teaching, and quickly tried to get me to sign up for lessons, at an extremely high price and in a lenghty contract.

Here are some things to look out for, but which don't necessarily mean that the place is all bad:

- Out of shape master
- Master who doesn't teach any or many of the classes and allows classes to be taught by un-qualified or certified instructors
- "dojos" in strip malls
- invented or modified styles
- tai kwan do (no joke, a great majority of crap dojos are either "karate" or tai kwan do)
- high prices, lengthy contracts
- no changing rooms for women
- high belt fees (like $20... I pay $4 for my belts!), large black belt "testing" fees
- a large array of belt colors (belts are a modern thing, not traditional. Mine has white, green, and black. You have white while you're unranked which is for a short while, green for the 10 kyu ranks, and black for the 10 dan ranks)
- schools that are overly dangerous or overly safe
- them allowing you to join without first observing the class
- participation in tournaments (tournaments and ESPECIALLY schools which train you to fight like they do in tournaments, are very impractical. They teach you to fight in non-lethal, non injurious ways. Tounaments make you hold back, and make you wear padding, and not strike the most realistic target areas.

Of course there is more to this, and a lot of it will be based on intuition. I got lucky, and my second visit was incredible. I'll describe it a bit so you get an idea of what I've come to believe everyone should expect, who is genuinely interested in martial arts.

I e-mailed the instructor there and asked if I could oversee one of his classes. He was glad that I asked, as it was required that one watches two hours of class before one joins. The dojo is in the upper level of an old library. It has mostly wood floors with a two person wide tumbling mat, and it's well furnished with various weapons and training equipment. It was a small class that day, just him and two students. They began by bowing into the kami-za, a shrine that's assembled in the front of the room. He explained that this was traditional, and that you can place mystical meaning on it if you wish, or not if you don't (I'm not mystical), but he explained that the purpose of it was to give us a sense of unity, to commit us all to a good day of training, which will create a better and safer training atmosphere. He would ask if they had anything in particular they wanted to work on, and let them do that for a bit if they wanted to, but he would also have a plan for the day, which he makes based on the history of the group and what he thinks should be focused on. It's really interesting that all levels are able to train together there, and all are able to gain something. He deomonstrates a technique, and then watches us perform it with partners. This particular style is not so much focused on mass repetition in order to gain muscle memory. It doesn't teach you prescribed "kami", or sets of movement for each level, but he enforces us with the core stances of the style, the core philosophy of the style, which in turn influences the way we move, etc... I can't really go into all the details of the style, but I was once in a McDojo, and this is absolutely a stark contrast, and I think it's incredibly more real and effective.

Anyway, between demonstrating the techniques and answering questions, he would sit down with me and tell me a lot about the philosophy of the style, and the history of it, he asked me why I wanted to be in martial arts, among other questions. He was certified, and the school was official. The art is called Bujinkan Budu Taijutsu, or as it was previously known, Ninjitsu. I know you might have some preconcieved notions about what ninjitsu is, but I would be willing to bet that you and the other 99.9% of the population don't have any idea about what it really is. That doesn't really matter.

For fees, it's a monthly fee of $35, there is a $4 belt fee (the cost of the belt, discounted even) each of the three times you change belt color in about 6 years or so. Classes meet 2 or 3 times weekly, for 2 hours, 2 hours, and 4 hours. Also, you can choose your Gi (uniform), but a normal very tough Gi will cost about $60, and this should last you a while. Oh, we also do a bit of practice with a Bokken (wooden sword), which costs $8.

One thing I get there that I really wanted was the phillosophical side. He would really make you understand why you are learning martial arts, what fighting is really for, what the purpose of a fight really is, and how to realistically handle the fight, among many many other things. I love that we could just sit down for an hour and discuss martial philosophy. This also includes the philosophy of the art as applied to actually practicing the art. There is a lot more to a real art than just throwing the punch with the right form. Really understanding the art and the philosophy behind it is what's necessary for real martial arts ability.

Of course, this may not be what you want. When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter much what style you choose. They can all be rewarding and effective if taught by a good instructor. I'm inclined to believe mine is the most effective, as is most every other person on the earth. I'm more informed than many, but that doesn't make me right by any means. There are legitimate schools of very many forms, but some forms have a much much higher percentage of legitimacy, and some don't really have any. Jeet Kun Do is a modern invention, not a well established art with proven effectiveness (arguably). Tai Kwan Do is a modern american invention (1950's about). My art has the longest continuous lineage, dating back over 1000 years. It has been used in combat for 1000 years, it has survived, that's what proves its effectiveness.

Anyway, I would really recommend reading that FAQ, and maybe asking some questions on that rec.martial-arts.moderated group. They could tell you where some decent schools are locally.

Martial arts is really something that can change your life. I would highly recommend it to anyone.

So, if you have any specific questions about a style, I might be able to help you out. I can tell you that hapkido, for instance, is an extremely repetitive and simple style. There are something like 20 core moves which are drilled and drilled and drilled into you. It makes for quick reactions, but honestly I think it lacks in the spontaniety which a real fight requires. If I remember correctly, it focuses a lot on boxy style punching. (japanese arts are often more square, straight, boxy, whereas chinese arts are more circular and flaily. Take swordsmanship. The chinese broadsword is flailed around in circular patterns and waved a lot, where the katana is used in various mostly straight line, box like cuts).

Wow, that was long. Please don't flame me over insulting your style. I don't really care.

 

[ooheadsoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMedic00 ooheadsoo: Fedor is a beast. The guy looks like an out of shape slob at first glance, but he is an incredible athlete. Did you see the suplex Randleman gave him? That would have put me in a coma, yet Fedor shook it off like nothing. Insane. (Sorry for the off topic, panda).

Sorry for the OT. Yeah, Fedor is incredible. He just calmly fires missiles at your head and body from all sorts of angles while escaping every submission you throw at him before you've even set him up. WTH. And his armbar on Coleman a few fights ago...I had no idea he could pop an armbar out that fast.

Man, just watching bits of that last fight with Nog again...man, he's really good with his throws too. He was so in control of that fight.