Annoying "ringing" sound in classical music piano recordings
Apr 9, 2019 at 9:16 AM Post #16 of 45
I thikt it's not in my ears. I need you all to listen to the works first, sry but you can't give an opinion otherwise.
I think @bigshot has the most effective solution to this phenomena. I chose the "let's-buy-a-gadget-to-modify-the-analog-signal"... a Loki MIni (analog equalizer). I have a hunch all popular audio software has a virtual equalizer (EQ) baked in. I suffer from a harsh high tone in my right ear... EQ provides me relief. Consider the EQ option, eh. :)
 
Apr 9, 2019 at 7:14 PM Post #18 of 45
Is this one specific recording or "common in many piano recordings" as you said in the OP? Because I can tell you that I have thousands of classical piano recordings, and ringing distortion isn't common in many recordings. There are some bad recordings that have distortion, but that's the exception, not the rule. And it's more common in older recordings and live recordings.
 
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Apr 10, 2019 at 8:51 AM Post #19 of 45
I haven’t read the whole thread. If you hit a chord decently on the acoustic piano or play it hard the higher notes on a piano are not damped and will ring even though they are not played. I just tried it. The lower notes are damped. You can look in a piano and see how all of the hammers and dampers work. I would guess a grand piano would project this ringing out even more. There would I think be in turn further ringing of higher harmonics of the piano notes that ring. (I don’t have a grand.) The ringing in question could just part of be excellent recordings of excellent pianos on good to excellent playback equipment. Just a guess. If there is emphasis in the lower treble (2 kHz to 6 kHz? Ballpark guess.) in the recording or speakers or headphones it could possibly disproportionately emphasize this ringing and make the ringing of a closely recorded piano more prominent.

I double-checked myself--here's a discussion about the undamped higher notes on a piano. https://music.stackexchange.com/que...igher-notes-ring-more-than-f6-and-lower-notes

The undamped keys start at the second-highest F#--at approximately um, oh let's say, let me guess here, 1479.978 hertz. ; )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies
 
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Apr 10, 2019 at 2:21 PM Post #20 of 45
I haven’t read the whole thread. If you hit a chord decently on the acoustic piano or play it hard the higher notes on a piano are not damped and will ring even though they are not played. I just tried it. The lower notes are damped. You can look in a piano and see how all of the hammers and dampers work. I would guess a grand piano would project this ringing out even more. There would I think be in turn further ringing of higher harmonics of the piano notes that ring. (I don’t have a grand.) It could just be excellent recordings of excellent instruments on good to excellent playback equipment. Just a guess. If there is emphasis in the lower treble (2 kHz to 6 kHz? Ballpark guess.) in the recording or speakers or headphones it could possibly disproportionately emphasize this ringing and make the ringing of a closely recorded piano more prominent.

I double-checked myself--here's a discussion about the undamped higher notes on a piano. https://music.stackexchange.com/que...igher-notes-ring-more-than-f6-and-lower-notes

The undamped keys start at the second-highest F#--at approximately um, oh let's say, let me guess here, 1479.978 hertz. ; )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies
yeah after some investigation i'm with you, i know piano tuning, and i have a vertical acoustic, you are right the higher notes are not dampened, it could just be that, those armonicss/resonance. btw it's really hard to tune those higher notes, since the other ones around are not dampened and there is a lot of resonance in that part of the piano also.

But the point is, when i'm not tuning, and i'm playing, i'm not able to listen to that sounds, wich i can listen when i'm tuning (with my ears there and really close).

How could that become ANNOYING, in a classical music CD recording? that's the point. I read a comment of a guy who said he enjoyed that. I don't. Maybe it's not about good/bad recording/mastering, but a matter of taste.
 
Apr 10, 2019 at 6:06 PM Post #22 of 45
How a piano is miked can make a huge difference. Some recordings are very percussive and have very sharp transient punch. If I play them loud they make my ear go thud inside. That might be the case here.
 
Apr 10, 2019 at 6:13 PM Post #23 of 45
How a piano is miked can make a huge difference. Some recordings are very percussive and have very sharp transient punch. If I play them loud they make my ear go thud inside. That might be the case here.
agreed, but how could DECCA make such a huge mistake? that's why i think it's a matter of taste. think uchida late beethoven sonatas 2006 recording, it has ringing.
 
Apr 10, 2019 at 6:20 PM Post #24 of 45
agreed, but how could DECCA make such a huge mistake? that's why i think it's a matter of taste. think uchida late beethoven sonatas 2006 recording, it has ringing.
I believe that you all are ignoring the possibility of the UMG audible watermark being the root cause of your observation. Please obtain a non-Tidal download of the subject files, and compare them---i.e., go buy the CD.
 
Apr 11, 2019 at 3:24 AM Post #26 of 45
agreed, but how could DECCA make such a huge mistake?
Recording a piano is always somewhat of a compromise. The different permutations of mic choice, relative positioning and overall mic'ing schemes each have certain advantages and certain unavoidable side-effects. It's therefore a trade-off between the desired qualities and undesirable side-effects, which is a subjective decision made by the engineer/s, producer and musician, largely based on how noticeable those undesirable side-effects are likely to be. The obvious difficulty is that this can only be judged for a majority/percentage of listeners because different playback equipment, playback environments, freq response and playback volume can all affect the notice-ability of those side-effects. In other words, the "huge mistake" could, in effect, be yours! Some unintended consequence of your particular playback circumstances, for example; something as simple as a higher playback level than the expected playback volume range. This isn't definitely the case of course, mistakes (and/or misjudgements) can certainly be made but the two recordings you listed were made by Decca and EMI, two of the most knowledgeable, experienced and influential labels in the history of music recording, so the chances of them both making the same mistake are rather unlikely (though not impossible).
I can record and upload some recordings, then we can debate. Just tell me if you are willing to.
That would be a good idea. A couple of 10 secs or so snippets of the bits which exhibit the phenomena you are talking about. There are numerous different potential causes of what you've described and identifying what's on the original recordings themselves will help narrow it down.

G
 
Apr 11, 2019 at 6:17 AM Post #27 of 45
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Apr 11, 2019 at 11:22 AM Post #28 of 45
Recording a piano is always somewhat of a compromise. The different permutations of mic choice, relative positioning and overall mic'ing schemes each have certain advantages and certain unavoidable side-effects. It's therefore a trade-off between the desired qualities and undesirable side-effects, which is a subjective decision made by the engineer/s, producer and musician, largely based on how noticeable those undesirable side-effects are likely to be. The obvious difficulty is that this can only be judged for a majority/percentage of listeners because different playback equipment, playback environments, freq response and playback volume can all affect the notice-ability of those side-effects. In other words, the "huge mistake" could, in effect, be yours! Some unintended consequence of your particular playback circumstances, for example; something as simple as a higher playback level than the expected playback volume range. This isn't definitely the case of course, mistakes (and/or misjudgements) can certainly be made but the two recordings you listed were made by Decca and EMI, two of the most knowledgeable, experienced and influential labels in the history of music recording, so the chances of them both making the same mistake are rather unlikely (though not impossible).

That would be a good idea. A couple of 10 secs or so snippets of the bits which exhibit the phenomena you are talking about. There are numerous different potential causes of what you've described and identifying what's on the original recordings themselves will help narrow it down.

G
Great answer dude. I didn't mean to be rude when i said "huge mistake", i meant how could a noob like me find a "mistake" and some engineers from two of the most praised labels did not .
I'll keep what you said: trade-offs, side effects. Subjetivity.
I don't think there is much of my fault, talking volume-wise, since classical music is recorded very quietly and i don't have a powerful amp for my headphones .
 
Apr 11, 2019 at 11:31 AM Post #29 of 45
agreed, but how could DECCA make such a huge mistake

Are we talking about just one recording or piano recordings in general? I can’t pin down what you’re trying to say because it keeps changing. I have lots of Uchida recordings and they don’t have ringing.
 
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Apr 11, 2019 at 11:54 AM Post #30 of 45
Are we talking about just one recording or piano recordings in general? I can’t pin down what you’re trying to say because it keeps changing. I have lots of Uchida recordings and they don’t have ringing.
i was talking about an specific recording,
upload_2019-4-11_12-52-52.png
, another example is
upload_2019-4-11_12-53-26.png
.

In the uchida the ringing is minimum. In the andsnes's is obscene.
 

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