[ddoyle777]

How did this get so confusing?

A couple of weeks ago I started out to purchase an SACD player - I thought that since I mainly listen to classical it would be a good jump. I went to my semi-local mid-fi audio store - good people who have never tried to sell me something I didn't want. "Naaah," they said, "you probably wouldn't hear the difference." Get a 5-disc player.

So I went to a high end audio store. They said "Don't bother - the players aren't really that good unless you get to about 3K." Get yourself a good Redbook player and really enjoy the 1500 discs you have.

I went to a second high-end store who said, "I have them, but I wouldn't recommend them. Go buy a used Sony xxxxx (I don't remember the number as I was in shock that they didn't want to sell me what they had in stock!) and use two players in your system."

What's a guy to think here? So I'm about ready to replace my aging Denon with either a Rotel or a Rega. Who'd have thunk that it would be this difficult?

 

[Uncle Erik]

If you want to give the format a try, the Sony SCD-CE595 is a good place to start. You can find them under $100, or much lower refurbished, so you can try out SACD. I don't think you need a $3,000 player to get the benefits.

 

[plaidplatypus]

SACDs can sound great (edit: only if the original recording was good) but most of them are classical recordings. I have a nice SACDmods player in the sources for sale section, it's a great DVD player too. I put a demo Apollo in my old KGSS / Lambda Pro system and thought it was very enjoyable.

From what I see in your signature I would suggest first getting a better STAX amp if you like your SR-303 or a better dynamic amp for your Sennheisers. My choice for the 303 would be the Woo GES.

 

[Oliver :)]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddoyle777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I went to a second high-end store who said, "I have them, but I wouldn't recommend them. Go buy a used Sony xxxxx (I don't remember the number as I was in shock that they didn't want to sell me what they had in stock!) and use two players in your system." What's a guy to think here? So I'm about ready to replace my aging Denon with either a Rotel or a Rega. Who'd have thunk that it would be this difficult?

I think this last recommendation is about the most honest response that could ever come out of a dedicated retailer — forgoing safe money to give you good advice. That's rare and a true thumbs up. If I were you I would think about honoring it by picking up some high margin stuff they sell should you have a need for it, as maybe some of their house-brand cable or footers or so, or just a couple discs they have that you could easily get cheaper elsewhere.

The folks here will be quick to help you out with some good recommendations for used SACD units. Unless you have an urgent need for the latest and greatest (SACD and Blu-ray, or a machine with HDMI), go for a used higher-end unit from a couple years back. I just stated this a few days ago, the big japanese brands refresh their lines so often that their players quickly fall in price. You should be able to make a nice deal on a formerly top of the line Denon, Sony or Yamaha. As long as you are going to hook it up via analog, an expensive player will pay off, and it will also be a nice redbook player. You will get much more for your money.

If money is no object, well, then go get a Linn Unidisk, it should not disappoint with any given format

 

[Oliver :)]

Oh and sure you've been to SA-CD.net already and concluded that what is available is actually worth the effort to you.

 

[robm321]

Completely agree about the Linn. That source shows the true potential of SACD.

The Opto is well under $3K by no small margin, and it is a very good SACD player. I would start there or get a used Sony from Audiogon. The modded Sony's can perform well above their price.

 

[IceClass]

I've always hunkered after a Sony SCD-1, really based on looks alone.

Are they worth the $1200 or so they still go for after all these years or is there much better available cheaper these days?

 

[BigTony]

I used a Playstation3 as my SACD player for a short time, its not too bad. Fortunately my better half bought me a nice AVR amp that had on-board DSD so I sneaked up on an Oppo980h (which does DSD out via HDMI) and thats been a very nice combo. The problem with SACD is that if you want multichannel without HDMI your need to spend a fair bit on the analogue output (hence the 3K tag) but if you can use a DSD amp you can use this rather than analogue.

 

[Music Fanatic]

I very much like the convenience of universal players that play CD, DVD, DVD-A, SACD, and for some forthcoming models, Blu-Ray disks. This is important given the sudden boom in releases of Blu-Ray opera, ballet, and orchestral concerts -- suggesting that these will be an important format in the future.

If you are interested in multi-channel SACD, you'll hear the difference with even the cheapest universal player. Multi-channel has a distinct sound, since the three speakers in front and the two surround speakers create a much better sound stage than any two system set is capable of.

If you are comparing two-channel SACDs to traditional Redbook CDs, then the issue of comparison becomes much more controversial, and strong opinions are held on both sides (I still favor SACDs, personally). Note, though, that SACD for two channels is often much better engineered than most Redbook CDs are.

Cheap universal players include the $100 Pioneer DV-48AV [free US shipping; Vanns.com] and the $170 Oppo DV-980H [+$8 shipping].) Actually, neither of these players are particular bad -- they both send DSD over HDMI and have fair DVD sections and analogue outs, although there is certainly room for improvement.

The next step up is something like the $360 Pioneer DV-58AV [free US shipping; Vanns.com] or the $400 Oppo DV-983H or the forthcoming (unpriced, but probably $500-$600) Oppo BP-83. The Pioneer has fairly good audio outs, and all of this units will output audio over HDMI (the 983H converts to PCM first before outputing SACDs, while the other two transfer SACDs as DSD).

Moving up, I'm particular fond of the the Esoteric line, and have enjoyed the Esoteric DV-50 (upgraded to DV-50S). The current model is the Esoteric DV-60.

(I also liked the sound of the older Pioneer universal players such as the DV-59AVi and DV-79AVi, since they used Firewire (e.g., i.Link). i.Link could buffer packets, and had flow control, so there was zero jitter in exchanging packets. However, i.Link has largely has been dropped as an interconnect format in favor of HDMI. HDMI does not have those advantages, but with the use of jitter-reduction, jitter should never be at audible levels with competent implementations of these systems.)

I am less able to recommend high-quality 2 channel only SACD/CD players -- there are a number of these, but I greatly prefer listening to multi-channel sound.

If you wish to listen to multi-channel sound on headphones, look for a quality receiver that supports Dolby Headphone or Yamaha Silent Cinema. I've had very good experience with the Pioneer SE-DIR2000C which includes a nice wired headphone amp (this model that is no longer made, unfortunately) Audiocubes has a survey page on headphone-only surround-sound and wireless headphones.

One final recommendation -- most systems have trouble with more than one multi-channel audio input. If this poses problems for you, I suggest you may want to consider investing in the Zektor MAS7.1 multi-channel audio/digital audio/HDMI switch. Copper Box sells this for $500.

 

[MartinDB]

I have little sympathy with the retailers based on my impressions of classical recordings. I have a second hand Marantz SA-7001 CD/SACD player which I listen to through MF X-Can V2. It sounds great on SACDs. For redbook I use a Rega Planet with MF X-Can V3 and X-Dac V3, these last two with an X-PSU V3. In each case I listen through Grado SR 325i headphones.

Both set-ups sound great but it takes the higher spec CD player, headphone amp plus Dac to create competition with the cheaper SACD player and headphone amp. (The former also has significantly better, Van Den Hul interconnects.) In particular, the SACD opens up orchestral CDs and adds depth, clarity and soundstage, if that makes sense. On recordings such as a Mahler symphony from the San Franciso Symphony Orchestra, the Rega set-up cannot compete as the impact is marked and noteworthy, leaving me catching my breath at times at the quality of the sound.

While I couldn't recommend a high spec or new SACD player - simply owing to lack of experience - I am very happy to have made my relatively modest investment in the Marantz. And I am certainly intrigued as to how good things could get. Based on my experience I would certainly recommend an inexpensive foray into SACD.

Martin

 

[ddoyle777]

Mr/Ms Fanatic,

Great info. Thanks for being so detailed - you've helped a lot. You've clarified the situation as to multi channel vs 2 channel which is something I hadn't factored in. I'm pretty much stuck with 2 channel in my study, so this really makes me think that I'll pass on SACD for now.

 

[IceClass]

I don't really have any interest in multi-channel SACD listening but I'd like to find a sub $1000 SACD player that'll show me what SACD can do.

 

[Music Fanatic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceClass /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't really have any interest in multi-channel SACD listening but I'd like to find a sub $1000 SACD player that'll show me what SACD can do.

I would suggest one of the Pioneers -- I think you'd hear the difference between CDs and SACD even with the DV48AV, but the DV58AV will be even better. Since you won't be using audio over HDMI, older models such as the DV59AVi or DV79AVi will also be good demonstrations.

(Actually, it is quite easy to hear the difference, because SACD layers are generally mastered better than CD layers.)

Here is a head-fi review discussing the DV58AV (although it primarily focuses on a modded version.)

Since it is only $360 (with delivery) from Vanns.com, I think this version will allow you to pretty much sample everything you want. One thing I like about the DV58AV is that it does not require a monitor to use.

Should you at a later point want to try audio over HDMI, video output, DVD-A, or multi-channel output, the DV58AV can help you do that as well, although its focus is clearly on 2-channel usage.

 

[pbarach]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Music Fanatic /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you are comparing two-channel SACDs to traditional Redbook CDs, then the issue of comparison becomes much more controversial, and strong opinions are held on both sides (I still favor SACDs, personally).

There are some people who find no difference between redbook cd and 2-channel SACD, and others who hear differences. But is there any credible authority who says that redbook is better than 2-channel SACD?

 

[pbarach]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinDB /img/forum/go_quote.gif In particular, the SACD opens up orchestral CDs and adds depth, clarity and soundstage, if that makes sense.

Are you sure that the redbook layer and the 2-channel SACD layer are based on the same master? I understand that sometimes they aren't...