[billybob_jcv]

The EFF disagrees. In addition to considering this "Fair Use", they are also making a claim for an exemption based on the need to analyze the software for safety and research.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/help-eff-defend-right-tinker-your-car

Good reading...
https://www.eff.org/files/2015/02/09/2014-_07_eff_vehicle_security_comment_.pdf

 

[gikigill]

EFF isn't the law Billybob.

 

[veyrongatti]

So, we got a C&D from VW Group regarding alleged tinkering with the Rolls' firmware, not sure how they found out, but that's a different matter. The thing is, we're not even using the factory ECUs, they're sitting in a box on a shelf, so it's really none of their business.

Wait so you arent even allowed to work on your own car now? Scary world these days

 

[gikigill]

You can work on your car, just not the proprietary software.

 

[Magick Man]

We're writing them a letter telling them to eat a big s*** sandwich, since it's our car and I'm not even using the OEM computers or modifying existing firmware. I have lawyers too, and I guarantee mine are much more vicious and calculating.

Two, we're almost 100% sure the factory infotainment system has a cellular module, to call for emergency service, should your champagne ever get > 4C or something like that, but it also sends streams of info about the car's status and error codes back to the manufacturer, so they can dispatch a crack repair team to fix your refrigerator. During all of our deep and probing "molestations", the poor thing has no doubt been frantically screaming for help from the mothership, telling them that evil, terrible people have been violating her programming/honor and forcing her to do things that she was never designed to cope with.

 

[gikigill]

As long as you haven't reverse engineered or tampered with the official Rolls Royce firmware, you should be alright Magick.

 

[Hutnicks]

We're writing them a letter telling them to eat a big s*** sandwich, since it's our car and I'm not even using the OEM computers or modifying existing firmware. I have lawyers too, and I guarantee mine are much more vicious and calculating.

Two, we're almost 100% sure the factory infotainment system has a cellular module, to call for emergency service, should your champagne ever get > 4C or something like that, but it also sends streams of info about the car's status and error codes back to the manufacturer, so they can dispatch a crack repair team to fix your refrigerator. During all of our deep and probing "molestations", the poor thing has no doubt been frantically screaming for help from the mothership, telling them that evil, terrible people have been violating her programming/honor and forcing her to do things that she was never designed to cope with.

That's easy enough to take care of. Time for your guys to bone up on the frequency scanner/packet sniffer  you are about to buy

 

[ssrock64]

Wait, isn't Rolls-Royce BMW's property? Did you misspeak, or what does VW have to do with this?

 

[billybob_jcv]

Bad laws should be fought, not followed!

If the DMCA applied to physical objects as well as digital objects, scissors would be illegal. (paraphrased from Wellington Grey AKA C.G.P Grey)

This really is a serious issue that is very, very bad for the future of car enthusiasts. Embedded software is now a critical component, and it will continue becoming more and more vital to how your car runs and performs. This is nothing short of an attempt by the car mfgs to pull an Apple-esque grab on control of who is allowed to work on your car. They want only "authorized agents" (AKA people that have paid them licensing fees) to be able to touch the vehicle. It's simply another case of protectionism & control in the guise of "risk management".

 

[Hutnicks]

Bad laws should be fought, not followed!

If the DMCA applied to physical objects as well as digital objects, scissors would be illegal. (paraphrased from Wellington Grey AKA C.G.P Grey)

This really is a serious issue that is very, very bad for the future of car enthusiasts. Embedded software is now a critical component, and it will continue becoming more and more vital to how your car runs and performs. This is nothing short of an attempt by the car mfgs to pull an Apple-esque grab on control of who is allowed to work on your car. They want only "authorized agents" (AKA people that have paid them licensing fees) to be able to touch the vehicle. It's simply another case of protectionism & control in the guise of "risk management".

Exactly how long did it take for the iPhone to be jailbroken again?

 
 I'd really like to see some of this wind up in the supreme courts. DMCA is all well and good but I have a sneaky suspicion that basic rights and more than a few laws are bent or violated in their implemtation. The concept of not owning something you buy would have me looking very seriously at vehicle purchase agreements which in fact should then be taking on the form of a licensing fee.
 
 I love first world problems.

 

[Shaffer]

So, we got a C&D from VW Group regarding alleged tinkering with the Rolls' firmware, not sure how they found out, but that's a different matter. The thing is, we're not even using the factory ECUs, they're sitting in a box on a shelf, so it's really none of their business.

Blame the CAN-bus. There's likely an ECU buried among 60 other ECUs whose sole function is to report the vehicle status. The bus, itself, is a significant step toward social control culminating with automated roadways. Hell, it can even allow for control of your car remotely. No thanks. I can go on for pages. Suffice it to say that none of my personal cars run on a CAN-bus.

I'm actually shopping for a new family car and the CAN-bus is unavoidable, but who cares? It's a car for dropping off the kids and going to the supermarket.

 

[Magick Man]

Wait, isn't Rolls-Royce BMW's property? Did you misspeak, or what does VW have to do with this?

Yeah, I'd just been talking about VW with someone else, I meant to say BMW. Oops.

 

[billybob_jcv]

I'm waiting for the next big auto mfr cover-up to be leaked, where it will be discovered that a bug in the firmware caused anti-lock brakes to fail if a TPMS valve stem detects your left rear tire is 2 lbs low, or the automatic headlights shut-off if it is night AND the windshield wipers are on high AND you are tuned to an AM radio station. The car mfr will hide behind the DMCA and refuse to provide the source code to analysis - until a young software engineer working at the car mfr sends the source code to Wikileaks, exposing the extremely poor coding and lack of inline source code comments to the entire world...

 

[Hutnicks]

I'm waiting for the next big auto mfr cover-up to be leaked, where it will be discovered that a bug in the firmware caused anti-lock brakes to fail if a TPMS valve stem detects your left rear tire is 2 lbs low, or the automatic headlights shut-off if it is night AND the windshield wipers are on high AND you are tuned to an AM radio station. The car mfr will hide behind the DMCA and refuse to provide the source code to analysis - until a young software engineer working at the car mfr sends the source code to Wikileaks, exposing the extremely poor coding and lack of inline source code comments to the entire world...

Worked on the F-18A did ya?

 

[gikigill]

The F18 has AM Radio??!!