[AC1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by apostate /img/forum/go_quote.gif All you will have likely determined is that you prefer the sound of the Marantz amp which there is nothing wrong with. I've got about 6 feet of cables and two more components than I did when I was just using my Denon CDP for everything and even my wife can easily point out the improvements using the separate DAC and Amp (she's not into audio at all).

Exactly, you are just prefering the sound of the Marantz amp. If you try a lot of amps, you should be able to find one that sounds the same, better, or worse.
Just having longer wires or passing through more "stuff" is not necessarily the determining factor in SQ.

 

[Duc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vai-777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have always had the notion that the shorter the signal chain the better the sound ( at least in regards to what was originally recorded ) I have always felt that AMPS color the recording way too much. I mean I like color for the amplification of GUITARS and as most players go I prefer the sound of TUBE AMPS, specifically CLASS A. However I feel TUBE AMPS for HIFI audio by design have way too many variables to ever get a consistant sound. The tubes themselves are by nature less than perfect and the main reason GUITAR players use them is because of the way they distort the signal. EL34 6L6 EL84 KT66 all are very different sounding as power tubes. To complicate matters further they all sound different from different makers TELEFUNKEN, GROOVE TUBES, FENDER, RCA(good luck) ELECTRO HARMONIX, MARSHALL ECT...... Why would anyone want to add that much color to a recording, you might as well just go and remix the album yourself to your liking. As all guitar players know, SOLID STATE is the way to go for CLEAN,QUIET and BALANCED tone. So if I were to get an amp it would be a solid state, however! Why would anyone want to put a digital signal through yards and yards of copper/silver/gold/platinum or whatever they make cables from these days. All it does is color the sound. Maybee this is one reason so many people love the HEED CANAMP very simple design with very little wiring, it still has a pc bord and isnt POINT to POINT handwired but none the less its simple. There is less that gets in the way of the signal. Same goes for headphone cables, why are they so long i mean the shroter the better, i find it ridiculous that some of these high end phones come wth 15 feet extention cables when the already have 10 feet of between the source and the speaker. The signal gets squashed through those lengths of cable. 5 or 6 feet should be sufficient in most cases. WOW i know this has turned into a rant but I guess all im trying to say is that THE SHORTER THE SIGNAL CHAIN THE BETTER. (at least to me ) I really believe that one of these high end audio comanies need to come up with an integrated Headphone amp / CDP a one in all box that you could just plug and play. For now Ill have to be content with my MARANTZ5001. But I guess if ARCAM / ROTEL / NAD / WADIA / ECT.... made such a device then how could they get all those profits from thier amps / preamps / power conditioners / cables ect.... So which one of thse companies is going to truly step out of the mold and create a one in all Headphone / cdp plug and play device worthy of being call an AUDIOPHILE system, I mean it cant be that difficult. I wont hold my breath!!!!!

uh...

 

[jdimitri]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vai-777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif And im not going out and getting a $1k cdp because there have been blind tests conducted where no one could tell the differene between 3k players and $200 players. In fact i have a $600 rotel so maybee ill A/B that against the matrantz with the HEED. its an old rotel 1996 but it was the top of the line and has very low hours on it.

Yes yes.. that's true
... in bizzaro world

 

[Emon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vai-777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have always felt that AMPS color the recording way too much.

Maybe in the boutique audiophile world, but the science and engineering communities mastered such a simple linear device decades ago.

 

[squall2072]

No-one needs an amp, but people want one, (like myself)

It all depends on the headphones, I'd be very cautious of someone saying the K1000's are better out of an ipod than a good amp or any high end headphones for that matter.

On the whole tubes thing, I like them too, they make the music and mids slighly warmer and, unlike most solid state amps, you can change the sound just by changing the tubes

(As an added bonus they also glow

)

 

[humanflyz]

Of course you need an amp: you have no choice but to have an amp because that's the only way an audio signal is reproduced by the transducer.

 

[squall2072]

Quote:

Originally Posted by humanflyz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of course you need an amp: you have no choice but to have an amp because that's the only way an audio signal is reproduced by the transducer.

Depends if you want to hear your headphones or not

I meant an amp that isn't integrated into a Cd player etc,

 

[humanflyz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by squall2072 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Depends if you want to hear your headphones or not I meant an amp that isn't integrated into a Cd player etc,

Well, I just find the OP's question puzzling: an amplifier is just a device that amplifies a given input voltage. In that sense of the word, every electronic audio device has an amp of some sort. And I find the OP's suggestion that external amps are somehow "colored" also puzzling, because an amp will always introduce some level of distortion and coloration.

To the OP, forget about what "theoretically" should sound better, just go and listen to stuff and decide for yourself.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vai-777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well i may try the heed but if i cant hear a difference to the onboard amp of my marantz ( by difference i mean better sound not worse) its really going to confirm my belief that LESS IS MORE. And im not going out and getting a $1k cdp because there have been blind tests conducted where no one could tell the differene between 3k players and $200 players. In fact i have a $600 rotel so maybee ill A/B that against the matrantz with the HEED. its an old rotel 1996 but it was the top of the line and has very low hours on it.

If you can't hear the difference between sources of different quality, amps of different quality, etc., that's great for you. It will save you money. I don't buy $500 bottles of wine, because my palate is not sophisticated enough and I haven't had enough experience with various types of wine to appreciate fully the $500 bottle. But I understand that others do and the $500 bottle is worth it to them. To each his own.

 

[John_M]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you can't hear the difference between sources of different quality, amps of different quality, etc., that's great for you. It will save you money. I don't buy $500 bottles of wine, because my palate is not sophisticated enough and I haven't had enough experience with various types of wine to appreciate fully the $500 bottle. But I understand that others do and the $500 bottle is worth it to them. To each his own.

Although if the person buying the $500 bottle can't actually tell it apart from a $5 bottle (but merely thinks he can), he is being ripped off.

 

[vai-777]

I can hear the differences between CDPS but the differences are minute at best.

My original question is stated wrong, I should have said Do you really need an expensive ( $300-$1k) amp for high end headphones.

Ill ty the HEED when i find one for sale and test it out.Maybee I am wrong about the whole thing. I hope it sounds better I really do, but I wont know for sure until i test it out for myself.

Its been a while since I got back into the HI END hifi stuff and alot has changed. My first HI END system (1996) consisted of ROTEL 970BX and an ARCAM ALPHA 5 amp with some REGA UL8 speakers, I still have it and it still sounds great, just not so great with phones. I had a pair of SENN HD 25 SP that I used for a great while and thought they were the best phones out there, then I got the SENN HD600s (1998 or 1999)and Ive been content ever since.

I wanted to upgrade recently and I hear allthis talk about headphones amps and cable upgrades and all this BURN IN talk (though I heard the same thing about burn in when I got my SENN 600s) and im like "what the hell". It seems that a pair of $300 phones shouldnt need a cable upgrade to sound good. Never mind the pair of GRADO GS1000 that I had which were recabled and couldnt compete with my SENN 600s on most stuff. $1000K list and you figure GRADO would have the perfect cables on those cans already.

All im saying is that it seems that alot of people are spending a tremendous amount of monet for minute differences in preformance. Ill equate it to the guy who brings his car to the track and runs 12 sec quarter mile, then he mods the car to the tune of x amount of $$$$$ (ussually about the cost of the actual car) and takes off 2 seconds. Now for drag racing thats alot of time, but to double the cost of your system for a 15% - %20 percent "improvement" in sound quality is crazy. at least to ME. I guess thats why I have so many DISCS.

Then theres the people with the IPODS or other MP3 sources and the $400 phones, and $700 amp, dont get me started with that.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_M /img/forum/go_quote.gif Although if the person buying the $500 bottle can't actually tell it apart from a $5 bottle (but merely thinks he can), he is being ripped off.

Well of course, if the wine glass is consumed after two Big Macs the better wine makes no difference both are wet and causes the same burp when drunk ;-}

 

[TzeYang]

no one mentioned PPA v2 without a gain stage?

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_M /img/forum/go_quote.gif Although if the person buying the $500 bottle can't actually tell it apart from a $5 bottle (but merely thinks he can), he is being ripped off.

He's not being ripped off. It's just that he's not making a wise choice perhaps. But there are differences between $5 bottles of wine and $500 bottles of wine, just like there are differences between $200 CDP's and $3,000 CDP's. The fact that some people can't discern the differences, or that some can't discern the differences under certain conditions, does not mean the differences don't exist, or that they are not worthing spending a lot of money on for some people.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vai-777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif All im saying is that it seems that alot of people are spending a tremendous amount of monet for minute differences in preformance.

Minute to whom? I don't know how anyone can asses what value another person obtains from an improvement in sound quality from a given upgrade, or how one can even begin to measure the degree of the improvement for someone else. Your "minute" might be my "significant."

P.S. I don't what a 15% to 20% improvement if sound quality means. How do we measure that?