[ProtegeManiac]

Yes, I fully understand that the main thing about a system is the headset, and I did this test that you said and I could not distinguish the difference between the two, but explain one thing to me, if the amplifier only has the function of amplifying the So what are the advantages of having more expensive amplifiers besides of course the power they offer?

Lower noise and distortion, ie, they amplify the sound without modifying or adding to the signal. The more they have to amplify the signal (ie the higher the output), the more likely the circuit will add either, so you have to design that circuit to mitigate that. With pure Class A amplifiers they're avoiding the crossover distortion that happens when a Class A/B amplifier switches over to Class B. Some Class A/B amps have a higher Class A bias so you'd really have to crank them up with hard to drive headphones to start getting any of that. Class D amps don't have crossover distortion but so far the technology has more distortion and noise on high impedance loads at higher frequencies, same way that when these first came out they had a lot of distortion and noise at higher frequencies even with lower impedance loads, which is why they started out as subwoofer amplifiers or high power PA amplifiers (though these might still be using Class G or whatever) where low distortion and noise aren't as critical.

 

[megabigeye]

Yes, I fully understand that the main thing about a system is the headset, and I did this test that you said and I could not distinguish the difference between the two, but explain one thing to me, if the amplifier only has the function of amplifying the So what are the advantages of having more expensive amplifiers besides of course the power they offer?

You can test the resolution of your headphones (and ears) further by listening to different files of the same song. Make certain the files are different bit rates, say FLAC and 128kbps MP3; or one from your library and the same song on YouTube. Can you hear a difference? If not, you likely need more resolving headphones before other equipment will make a difference.

I don't want to pretend that I know all the different ways an amplifier works, but here is my very basic understanding: 1) obviously, an amplifier makes music louder. A bad amplifier, likely similar to the one in your phone, will add all sorts of noise and distortion; a good one will not add those things. Either way, it will amplify the good as well as the bad. So:
Good source + good amp = good sound
Bad source + good amp = bad sound
Good source + bad amp = bad sound
Bad source + bad amp = really bad sound
I'm guessing that your phone is not a good source, so an amp is only going to amplify its badness.
And 2) an amp gives power to move a speaker or headphone driver. Imagine that there are two doors-- one is very light and easy to move, the other is massive and very difficult to move. The very light door you can easily control yourself-- it doesn't require much power to open, close or slam it fast or slow. The very heavy door, on the other hand, is so massive that it takes all of your bodyweight just to move it-- by yourself you'll be unable to open or close it efficiently, let alone slam it or move it quickly. However, with the help of several more people it's easier to control because you have more power. The door is like a headphone driver and the people opening and closing it are like an amplifier. In this case, more power gives more control.

 

[Renato Fury]

You can test the resolution of your headphones (and ears) further by listening to different files of the same song. Make certain the files are different bit rates, say FLAC and 128kbps MP3; or one from your library and the same song on YouTube. Can you hear a difference? If not, you likely need more resolving headphones before other equipment will make a difference.

I don't want to pretend that I know all the different ways an amplifier works, but here is my very basic understanding: 1) obviously, an amplifier makes music louder. A bad amplifier, likely similar to the one in your phone, will add all sorts of noise and distortion; a good one will not add those things. Either way, it will amplify the good as well as the bad. So:
Good source + good amp = good sound
Bad source + good amp = bad sound
Good source + bad amp = bad sound
Bad source + bad amp = really bad sound
I'm guessing that your phone is not a good source, so an amp is only going to amplify its badness.
And 2) an amp gives power to move a speaker or headphone driver. Imagine that there are two doors-- one is very light and easy to move, the other is massive and very difficult to move. The very light door you can easily control yourself-- it doesn't require much power to open, close or slam it fast or slow. The very heavy door, on the other hand, is so massive that it takes all of your bodyweight just to move it-- by yourself you'll be unable to open or close it efficiently, let alone slam it or move it quickly. However, with the help of several more people it's easier to control because you have more power. The door is like a headphone driver and the people opening and closing it are like an amplifier. In this case, more power gives more control.

Yes I know amplifiers serve to drive difficult drivers, but why would someone buy something like Wells Audio Headtrip when it can save money with Schiit Ragnarok for example since both can blow up any headphone? Does the noise reduction and distortion justify the price difference?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Yes I know amplifiers serve to drive difficult drivers, but why would someone buy something like Wells Audio Headtrip when it can save money with Schiit Ragnarok for example since both can blow up any headphone? Does the noise reduction and distortion justify the price difference?

Why buy a Bugatti Veyron when even a Porsche 911 can violate the speed limit well enough to get your license revoked?

Why buy Crystal when you can just get any sparkling white wine?

Why buy salty as hell canned beluga caviar when you can get lucky and find eggs in a salmon?

Why pay for a $500 plate of Hanwoo short rib and ribeye in Seoul or one $300 striploin cooked and cubed in front of you by a teppanyaki chef in Osaka when you can waltz into a butcher's shop in NYC for USDA Prime ribeye, or whatever the equivalent is in Buenos Aires or Brasilia?

Why buy a Rolex when a Motorola Moto G can sync with stock market clocks? (Well, OK, the fully mechanical Rolex keeps working even if you're near an EMP burst, so there's one practical reason; which is why RAF pilots use Breitling).

Why buy a Lian Li machined aluminum PC case when you can just put the motherboard on a cardboard box and cover it when not in use?

Why buy a Noctua or BeQuiet! CPU cooler when a Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo can work well enough, and the other two aren't exactly going to get the performance of 2x360mm radiators anyway?

Because people who will pay a lot more for however much they will gain over the other stuff exist.

 

[Renato Fury]

Why buy a Bugatti Veyron when even a Porsche 911 can violate the speed limit well enough to get your license revoked?

Why buy Crystal when you can just get any sparkling white wine?

Why buy salty as hell canned beluga caviar when you can get lucky and find eggs in a salmon?

Why pay for a $500 plate of Hanwoo short rib and ribeye in Seoul or one $300 striploin cooked and cubed in front of you by a teppanyaki chef in Osaka when you can waltz into a butcher's shop in NYC for USDA Prime ribeye, or whatever the equivalent is in Buenos Aires or Brasilia?

Why buy a Rolex when a Motorola Moto G can sync with stock market clocks? (Well, OK, the fully mechanical Rolex keeps working even if you're near an EMP burst, so there's one practical reason; which is why RAF pilots use Breitling).

Why buy a Lian Li machined aluminum PC case when you can just put the motherboard on a cardboard box and cover it when not in use?

Why buy a Noctua or BeQuiet! CPU cooler when a Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo can work well enough, and the other two aren't exactly going to get the performance of 2x360mm radiators anyway?

Because people who will pay a lot more for however much they will gain over the other stuff exist.

You really like analogies, do not you?

 

[tansand]

So it wasn't a real question, you just wanted to convince yourself your cell phone has just as good a sound as other people have who have better gear. That's pretty common, actually. Don't worry about it. Or, worry about it.

 

[Renato Fury]

So it wasn't a real question, you just wanted to convince yourself your cell phone has just as good a sound as other people have who have better gear. That's pretty common, actually. Don't worry about it. Or, worry about it.

The sound of my cell phone is horrible, the sound of my computer is horrible, the sound of my headphones is horrible, and the only thing I'm absolutely sure of is the fact that I'm not sure of anything.

 

[tansand]

Uh huh. You're also ignoring what people tell you (people who know), and then insinuating that there are minimal differences in gear that varies in price. Buy a dac/amp and learn something, if that's what you're wanting to accomplish.

 

[Renato Fury]

Uh huh. You're also ignoring what people tell you (people who know), and then insinuating that there are minimal differences in gear that varies in price. Buy a dac/amp and learn something, if that's what you're wanting to accomplish.

No, you're implying that I'm insinuating, I just asked a question and you thought I was questioning the logic of getting more sophisticated equipment, but I'll accept any answer you give me just for understanding that you know more that I, the problem is that I asked pro @ProtegeManiac to teach me how much was 2 + 2 and he preferred to give me quantum physics lessons .......

Did you like my ProtegeManiac analogy? It was simple, quick and straightforward for everyone's understanding, so take advantage of it because I do not usually teach for free.

 

[tansand]

It's nothing to me, your thing there. When someone has the courtesy and does you the favor of comprehensively answering your question, it's bull for you to reply, "BINGO BONGO BOO, LOL!!!!"

You behave like a child.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

You really like analogies, do not you?

Because it is something that has a parallel in every other hobby or industry. I have a cheap, $10 knife that comes sharp right out of the package and I can make it sharper, but why do I still have Japanese brand knives? Simple: they're thinner and go through vegetables easier so onions can be chopped super fine and I don't cry, and tomatoes don't end up bleeding all over the cutting board that they can't roast in their own juices.

No, you're implying that I'm insinuating, I just asked a question and you thought I was questioning the logic of getting more sophisticated equipment, but I'll accept any answer you give me just for understanding that you know more that I, the problem is that I asked pro @ProtegeManiac to teach me how much was 2 + 2 and he preferred to give me quantum physics lessons .......

Did you like my ProtegeManiac analogy? It was simple, quick and straightforward for everyone's understanding, so take advantage of it because I do not usually teach for free.

When you were given straight, simple answers in prior threads you'd probe into the details anyway (or when asked for more details from your end, not respond with the needed details), so what I do is just go straight to the more detailed discusssion.

For example, in this thread, Rhamnetin gave some details, but he can't be specific about your scenario so he asked for more details, and you even told him he's not even trying to answer your question. But if we just went with a straight cut, "no problem!" and you encounter a problem, you'd ask why anyway. If we went with "nah buy a DAC-HPamp," and you find it unnecessary, you'd be asking why we blow money on things we didn't need (when your headphones are not even the same as ours, for a start).

 

[Renato Fury]

Because it is something that has a parallel in every other hobby or industry. I have a cheap, $10 knife that comes sharp right out of the package and I can make it sharper, but why do I still have Japanese brand knives? Simple: they're thinner and go through vegetables easier so onions can be chopped super fine and I don't cry, and tomatoes don't end up bleeding all over the cutting board that they can't roast in their own juices.




When you were given straight, simple answers in prior threads you'd probe into the details anyway (or when asked for more details from your end, not respond with the needed details), so what I do is just go straight to the more detailed discusssion.

For example, in this thread, Rhamnetin gave some details, but he can't be specific about your scenario so he asked for more details, and you even told him he's not even trying to answer your question. But if we just went with a straight cut, "no problem!" and you encounter a problem, you'd ask why anyway. If we went with "nah buy a DAC-HPamp," and you find it unnecessary, you'd be asking why we blow money on things we didn't need (when your headphones are not even the same as ours, for a start).

But you who presumed that I was criticizing your expensive equipment expenses when in fact I would like to have a Headtrip like SS, a DNA Stellaris like valves and a Chore Dave, for me it's worth to spend with what you love since that not financially damaging. But what I wanted to understand better were the gains that are obtained by buying such sophisticated equipment, because as much as I'm interested in these things I really do not know if it's worth just spending so much since I've never tried these things. But do not make me a bad friend, for me you're the guy with the most knowledge here, that's why I always ask you questions first.

 

[tansand]

Yeah, and this is what you said in reply:

That this my friend, you just wrote a book, you deserve to win all the trophies of this site. But I'm sorry for the fact that you asked for your time since I understood practically nothing, especially when you got to talk about cars since I also do not understand about them, so I told you a while back that analogies are not your strong point. But come on, my cell phone is a Lenovo Vibe C2 and the headphone I intend to feed is a Brazilian called Kuba Disco. Knowing this information could you repeat what you just said, in a more summarized and easier way for a noob as I understand it?

But you who presumed that I was criticizing your expensive equipment expenses when in fact I would like to have a Headtrip like SS, a DNA Stellaris like valves and a Chore Dave, for me it's worth to spend with what you love since that not financially damaging. But what I wanted to understand better were the gains that are obtained by buying such sophisticated equipment, because as much as I'm interested in these things I really do not know if it's worth just spending so much since I've never tried these things.

Clearly those gears are worth the money to the people who buy them, for a while at least. Nobody can tell you whether it would be worth it to you, and asking people to do so is just setting them up to try to convince you of basic information while you sit there and go, "Oh gee, I'm not sure..." until people give up responding to you. It's a game.

You're not doing even the minimum you need to do, that is attempt to understand the information people give you. You're just like, "Sorry dude, can you restate that?", instead.

You have some obscure headphones I bet nobody on this site has heard, and you are trying to get information from us about what MIGHT sound better driving them. Are you just listening to spotify and random mp3's too?

 

[yong_shun]

Since you are not happy with your phone performance in term of audio, get a AMP/DAC combo. It will bypass your phone DAC and AMP. The digital signal will get decoded by the dedicated AMP/DAC. Clean and less distortion are subjected to lots of factors such as quality of recording, sensitivity of the earphones or headphones as well as the output power. If you really want zero noise (hissing or whatever), get an iFi iEMatch that helps to reduce or even resolves the hissing issue.

 

[tansand]

Agree.