[Devon8822]

I am getting some Sennheiser HD-650s soon, so I am going to need an amp as well. Hopefully you guys can answer my questions.

1. Do you even need an amplifier when plugging into a computer? I am guessing you still do, but since I don't exactly know how powering HPs work maybe its possible that the computer is powering them?

2. Portable vs non-portable amplifier... pros and cons? My biggest concern in particular is SQ of a portable vs SQ of a non-portable amplifier. How much better sounding is a non-portable one going to be?

 

[FallenAngel]

All of these questions answered hundreds of times, do a search for many in-depth answers.

1) Source is irrelevant, HD650 require an amp. Onboard PC soundcards suck, peroid. Add-on soundcards can be very good (I use one at home and another at work instead of many DACs I've used). An amp is still required to get good quality sound from HD650.

2) Don't bother with portables for HD650.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

FA I like the pragmatic approach myself....saves time

FA is right on both points.

Peete.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devon8822 /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1. Do you even need an amplifier when plugging into a computer? I am guessing you still do, but since I don't exactly know how powering HPs work maybe its possible that the computer is powering them?

Some find they do, some not. I haven't heard a sound card that did a good job with HD-650's but I don't consider myself an expert on sound cards. I have always found that the HD-650's scale very well with better amplification so I would recommend an amplifier personally. I would do a search and get folks opinions on the topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devon8822 /img/forum/go_quote.gif 2. Portable vs non-portable amplifier... pros and cons? My biggest concern in particular is SQ of a portable vs SQ of a non-portable amplifier. How much better sounding is a non-portable one going to be?

The answer to that depends on how you will use them. Are you going to feed them MP3's? If so, what quality will the MP3's be? What kind of volumes do you intend to listen at? How convenient would having a portable be for you? How much money do you want to spend?

There are some excellent portable amplifiers out there, for instance Ray Samuel's products have brought me a great deal of pleasure over the years. I own the last generation of Headroom Micro Amp and DAC. I would rate them as excellent bang for the buck though they didn't have a long battery life. The DAC made them very nice for computer use, especially if you are using someone else's computer like one at work or in a computer lab. I haven't listened to the latest iteration but given their history, I would consider them very closely if I were looking for an amplifier.

 

[Lapwing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devon8822 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am getting some Sennheiser HD-650s soon, so I am going to need an amp as well. Hopefully you guys can answer my questions. 1. Do you even need an amplifier when plugging into a computer? I am guessing you still do, but since I don't exactly know how powering HPs work maybe its possible that the computer is powering them? 2. Portable vs non-portable amplifier... pros and cons? My biggest concern in particular is SQ of a portable vs SQ of a non-portable amplifier. How much better sounding is a non-portable one going to be?

I also recently bought the HD-650s and was wondering the same thing. I've been currently power them off of my X-Fi sound card and they've been sounding fantastic and plenty loud for most of my music collection. But I'm in the situation where I don't know what I might be missing, and I got curious enough to throw down some bills on one of these mystical amplifiers all these guys love so much. I'm eagerly waiting my hopes to come true, though it's hard for me grasp how this sound can get even better. I'll let you know next week after I've plugged into my new Little Dot MK III

 

[Dept_of_Alchemy]

Little Dot MkIII would be a good starting point. The HD650 improves dramatically with amplification, and as a general rule, don't go with portable amps if you don't need the portability.

 

[Hrama]

Can't say how a decent sound card in a computer works, since mine is garbage, but I actually just upgraded from my crappy Yamaha reciever's headphone out to a nice Little Dot MkIII with HD 650s and believe me, it makes a world of difference. Sure my Yamaha got plenty loud and all, but it just wasn't refined at all, highs were too harsh and bass, while certainly having impact, was kind of all over the place. Not only that but at higher volumes music would easily distort. The MkIII fixed all of that and gets plenty loud, keeps highs smooth and detailed, midrange fluid and warm while bass is tighter, deep and more reeled in from just flying all over the place. it is also dead silent, cuts down on hiss, resolves detail far better etc. etc. Point is, investing in a quality, dedicated headphone amp is usually worth it.

 

[Jare]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devon8822 1. Do you even need an amplifier when plugging into a computer? I am guessing you still do, but since I don't exactly know how powering HPs work maybe its possible that the computer is powering them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Some find they do, some not. I haven't heard a sound card that did a good job with HD-650's but I don't consider myself an expert on sound cards. I have always found that the HD-650's scale very well with better amplification so I would recommend an amplifier personally. I would do a search and get folks opinions on the topic.

Yeah, i have met many guys who listen straight out of a sound card with hifi headphones. And none of them had ever tested their headphones with quality amplification. Imho it's waste of money to buy such high quality headphones as hd650 etc. and use them without correct amplification. If you listen those straight out of a sound card, they generally lag especially a huge load of dynamics and bass. You may get perfectly good volume levels out of it, but that does not mean good amplification.

Normally sound cards have analog line-outs and those are not designed to drive hifi headphones. They are designed to output a line level signal to another device such as an amplifier. If you want to drive headphones with that signal, they must be very sensitive because a lag of power in the output. However there are some external sound cards, which include a headphone jack with some kind of amplifier. Actually my friend has recently advertised that his Echo Audiofire's headphone out is quite good. I'm a bit curious though, because before that he listened straight out of a laptop's integrated sound card with his hd595. Gotta test some day if it really is any good compared to ld mkIII...

Oh, and keep in mind that in hifi world you never have a perfect setup. It always finds a weak link *hears dollars flying*

. Btw, i personally hate integrated sound chips even with correct amplification. So, get a good sound card, cable and an amplifier.

 

[Lapwing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jare /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, i have met many guys who listen straight out of a sound card with hifi headphones. And none of them had ever tested their headphones with quality amplification. Imho it's waste of money to buy such high quality headphones as hd650 etc. and use them without correct amplification. If you listen those straight out of a sound card, they generally lag especially a huge load of dynamics and bass. You may get perfectly good volume levels out of it, but that does not mean good amplification. Normally sound cards have analog line-outs and those are not designed to drive hifi headphones. They are designed to output a line level signal to another device such as an amplifier. If you want to drive headphones with that signal, they must be very sensitive because a lag of power in the output. However there are some external sound cards, which include a headphone jack with some kind of amplifier. Actually my friend has recently advertised that his Echo Audiofire's headphone out is quite good. I'm a bit curious though, because before that he listened straight out of a laptop's integrated sound card with his hd595. Gotta test some day if it really is any good compared to ld mkIII... Oh, and keep in mind that in hifi world you never have a perfect setup. It always finds a weak link *hears dollars flying* . Btw, i personally hate integrated sound chips even with correct amplification. So, get a good sound card, cable and an amplifier.

What in the world are you talking about when you say "lag of power"? What must be very sensitive? Also, most sound cards have headphone out ports in addition to line out.
Please be more concise when explaining the differences between amplification because I have no idea what you mean by "lag". Do you in fact mean that bass hits are somehow thrown out of the timescale of the rest of the music? That doesn't make any sense to me. Amplifiers might "color" music in different ways, but explain to me how you think they can actually distort the timescale depending on a "huge load of dynamics"...."huge load of dynamics"? what does that even mean? All music is dynamic, it's like your saying the amplifier distorts the timescale based on the complexity of the music. Please show me some physics as to how that works...

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapwing /img/forum/go_quote.gif What in the world are you talking about when you say "lag of power"? What must be very sensitive?

I'm guessing that is a typo and was meant to be "lack of power" and he is referring to the headphones needing to be sensitive...

 

[Lapwing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm guessing that is a typo and was meant to be "lack of power" and he is referring to the headphones needing to be sensitive...

Hmm, that would indeed make a little more sense... But even still I don't think it's a question of lack of power if the headphones get sufficiently loud, its a question of sound colorization and distortion as result of the amplifier. What's more is that if you intend to feed your amplifier with your sound card's analogue output then colorization/distortion in equals even more colorization/distortion out. Right?

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapwing /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm, that would indeed make a little more sense... But even still I don't think it's a question of lack of power if the headphones get sufficiently loud, its a question of sound colorization and distortion as result of the amplifier. What's more is that if you intend to feed your amplifier with your sound card's analogue output then colorization/distortion in equals even more colorization/distortion out. Right?

Well, getting loud doesn't necessarily mean that there is enough power. Beyond a certain point there are two things that tend to get compromised. The first of these is that the speaker doesn't get moved quite as it should be which results in distortion and a reduction in clarity. The amplifier might have the balls to ram the speaker out there but does it have enough to brake it and pull it back in the opposite direction? As long as the speaker can continue to push more air you will get louder but if it can't brake the speaker fast enough you will lose definition and clarity.

The second is that the amplifier runs out of range on peaks in the music. Again this introduces distortion. When I used to work sound we tried to use amps with twice or more the rated power of the speakers they were attached to. This meant that even when the speakers were driven hard we would still have headroom and avoid distortion. Distortion is a bad for a speaker since it puts a lot of stress on it.

 

[xxbaker]

gpalmer:

that was a really good little explanation there. i've been looking for something to show my friends who don't seem to understand why an amp makes a difference since they can "already make their ears hurt"

 

[Jare]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapwing /img/forum/go_quote.gif What in the world are you talking about when you say "lag of power"? What must be very sensitive? Also, most sound cards have headphone out ports in addition to line out. Please be more concise when explaining the differences between amplification because I have no idea what you mean by "lag". Do you in fact mean that bass hits are somehow thrown out of the timescale of the rest of the music? That doesn't make any sense to me. Amplifiers might "color" music in different ways, but explain to me how you think they can actually distort the timescale depending on a "huge load of dynamics"...."huge load of dynamics"? what does that even mean? All music is dynamic, it's like your saying the amplifier distorts the timescale based on the complexity of the music. Please show me some physics as to how that works...

Sorry, that's a typo indeed and it was meant to be "lack of power" as gpalmer mentioned. Dynamics is also a bit bad word there, because i was trying to express a lack of airiness and sound stage in music with a single word.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapwing Hmm, that would indeed make a little more sense... But even still I don't think it's a question of lack of power if the headphones get sufficiently loud, its a question of sound colorization and distortion as result of the amplifier. What's more is that if you intend to feed your amplifier with your sound card's analogue output then colorization/distortion in equals even more colorization/distortion out. Right?

Gpalmer actually answered quite good there, but i would add a point to your last question. No, it doesn't necessarily equal even more colorization/distortion, because now you are not using the line out at so high signal levels that they result in colorization/distortion. So you are getting cleaner signal to your amplifier and also to your headphones

.

 

[krmathis]

1. Yes, it will need an amplifier.
The amplifier may be an external dedicated one, built into your computer (sound card), ...
2. Portable dedicated amplifiers can be really great, but perhaps not on par with a full size home amplifier sound wise. Price is also a factor.