[phishhead92]

Hello all, i was planning on buying the Beyer 880s (32 ohm or 600ohm versions will depend on what amp/dac i get) but if you guys could help me out with what kind of amp/dac i could use, my motherboard supports every type of normal connection (USB/Coax/Optical) I would prefer optical, for its higher sound resolution (correct me if im wrong) and Coax second because its still better than usb. my cap is around 200. size doesnt matter and i would prefer it has inputs for a preamp so if i decide to get one down the road i can.
 
I did look at the Audio-GD compass but i couldnt find it anywhere new, and that is one i would spend some extra money because it seems like a very nice amp/dac (right? )
 
thanks for any and all help
 
I have changed my mind (to to realizations that a Amp/DAC combo doesnt do both at the same time) so now i would just like a nice higher-end good sounding amp to pair with some Beyer 880's 32 or 600ohm versions depending on what the amps specs are
 
thanks for any and all help!

 

[sberamji]

Get the AUNE Headphone amp and DAC combo. It can be bought on ebay for $140. You will have to modify it to make it sing though.
 
It has coax and USB digital inputs. Optical does not give you higher resolution vs coax. The weightage that the ransport and DAC have on the sound is FAR higher than what connection you use. A good transport with a well built DAC will sound great on both inputs. However coax is a lot smoother than optical inputs.
 
The AUNE has a very good DAC stage for the price. I am using it with my Beyers 880 as well. I would recommend to get the 250ohms Beyers not the 600 or the 32 ohm ones. This will give you the best balance considering amps below 200.
 
Modifications for the AUNE:
 
1. Change the power supply to a 18V 1.5A Elpac. You can buy it from Newark.
2. Go to Cimarron techs site and buy the Burr brown OPA627 on brown dog adapters. It is VERY easy to change the opamps on the AUNE (just make sure they are in the correct direction).
3. To save money leave the DAC stage as is. It is pretty decent with the stock opamps as well.
 
What you end up with is a very sweet sounding amp for about $230 with the mods.
 
I have an AUNE myself and it is up for sale for $175 with mods made to the power supply (Elpac 18V 1.5A), amp stage and dac stage (AD797 in the amp stage and Burr browns 627 in the DAC stage).
 
PM me if you are interested. I have a higher end Meier amp and am using that right now with my setup so the AUNE is currently idle.
 
Either way (new or used) consider getting the AUNE. It uses very good parts and is built very well. You can follow my reviews of the same on headfi.

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/494823/aune-headphone-amp-dac-review
 
SB

 

[phishhead92]

you sure about the headphones?, ive read a bunch or reviews and for some reason the 250 arent as good as the 32 ohms version and then the 600 is another steup in sound. but if the amp with all the mods is only 230 i might just go for it in that case, i like new stuff and plus im getting a paycheck soon enough.
 
thanks for the info/quick response!
 
EDIT: im seeing on ebay it says can be used as "a headphone amp or a DAC"
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/AUNE-Mini-USB-DAC-Headphone-Amplifier-MK2-/260435237330
 
is that incorrect?

 

[vvaffles]

you can't get the compass new anymore as it is discontinued, i think its been replaced with the audio-gd FUN (or was it the sparrow?)

 

[phishhead92]

oh bummer. well, how does this AUNE work then? you have to choose for it to be in DAC or amp mode?, is there one that does both at the same time? or is that pretty much non existant

 

[vvaffles]

im pretty sure its the same way as any other amp/dac combo, run it though the headphone out to use its amp, or run it though the rca in the back to bypass it.

 

[phishhead92]

:/ alright time to edit things, ill get a DAC later, the one on my motherboard is suprisingly good when put through the Total Airhead Amp, but whats a good amplifier for this price?

 

[sberamji]

The AUNE acts as an amp and DAC for headphones at the sametime! Here are the combinations!
 
1. Headphone amp - you can switch between the coax input, USB input or the analog input! I have my computer connected via USB and my CD player connected by coax and analog! I switch between all 3 inputs as and when I need to!
 
2. DAC - it bypasses the headphone circuit and outputs the DAC output to the line level outs. You cannot use the volume control to adjust the line out as it is a line level output.
 
3. If you are buying a new power supply - ensure it is 18V REGULATED! If you are buying an unregulated supply buy a 15V one.
 
4. I havent heard the Bithead or airhead but I don't think they will have the same drive and control as the AUNE in driving a big headphone.
 
5. The higher impedence headphones usually have better control. When a headphone has a low impedence it puts a lot of stress of the amp as it has to output a lot of current. Most amps choke at this and that is why headphones distort. IEM's get away with this as they have a very high sensitivity but big headphones with low sensitivity and a low impedence will be a problem for a cheaper amp. I havent heard the 250 or the 32ohm beyer but there is a reason why Beyer offers them in 3 flavours. Unless you plan on driving them directly with you sound card or an ipod I would stick with the higher impedence headphones.
 
6. The AUNE uses a buffer transistor after the opamps which give it a LOT of power. The airhead runs of the USB power input or 4 cells. The max voltage it can receive is 5V for USB and 6V for batteries. The AUNE uses 15V as its input with a lot more current capacity and uses buffers after the opamp stage. From the basic electronics here I can tell you that the AUNE should have a lot better control and will be able to play a lot louder without choking.
 
If you decide to buy the AUNE buy it from the New York based seller as he will sell it with a 15V adapter that runs directly on the US 110 voltage. I have heard that the seller in China sends a step down convertor which in my opinion messes the sound. Of course if you are upgrading the power supply it will not matter.
 
7. The bithead and airhead use a very poor potentiometer. This isnt headroom fault. When you try and get a small potentiometer (volume control) you WILL have channel imbalance. i.e. when you start moving the volume knob one channel maybe slightly of balance.
 
I know I sound like a AUNE seller but Im trying to tell you to save your money and buy one decent headphone amp rather than buy a cheaper one and try to sell it again. You can also look at Fubar's amps from Audiophileproducts.com They are more expensive than the AUNE though.
 
8. Which sound card are you using? Sound cards typically struggle with dynamics and transparency since they operate within the computers noisy enclosure and have volatge limits as well.
 
Hope this helps. If you need any help feel free to ask. Have you considered the Sennheiser HD650 as well? I can bet that if you change the AUNE amps stage to AD797 opamps and mate it with a HD650 you will get EXCELLENT sound as the AD797 balances out the HD650's weaknesses very well. The Beyers are terrific as well and are very neutral.
 
I am currently driving my beyer T1's with the AUNE and they sound fantastic. This is why I like the AUNE. It is cheap and VERY scalable! If you are changing opamps ensure they go in the correct direction i.e. the opamps have a dot on one end and the opamp socet has a small c shapped hole on one side. Both sides should line up i.e. hole on the opamp above the c shaped hole on the socket. Otherwise you will get a buzz and the opamp is dead
 
Once again to sum it up -
 
Get the AUNE
Leave the DAC stage untouched
Add a AD797 to the amp stage if you are using a dark or rolled of headphone like the HD650
You can use a Burr Brown OPA627 if you want to add some color and sweetness to a neutral headphone like the beyers
Change the power supply to an 18V Elpac 1.5A regulated supply. I dont recommend switched supplies usually but the switched elpac works just as fine! (it is difficult to getthe exact linear supplies due to environment regulations right now)
 
SB
 

 

[phishhead92]

WOW, that is alot of information, but what i was thinking about in the past day or so (also cause Jambo finally is able to send out some DAC kits) i was thinking about getting the Jambo DAC (DIY kit) and then get a seperate amp so they are each doing their own thing, and as terms of soundcards, i dont have a separate one for my computer because my motherboard's integrated one seems to work pretty nicely. it is a VIA something haha, i cant remember offhand, but i might be willing to spend some on a M-audio or another good one to step my rig up.
 
EDIT: did think aboutthe HD650s, then i looked at the price tag, jumped right back to the beyers haha. but the DAC component is settled now i just need a amp reccomendation. and maybe ill think about that real small AUNE amp for my DIYmod on my ipod, its smaller than what i carry now

 

[sberamji]

Look for a used creek obh-11 for $100. Thats the best at that price! Otherwise save and buy an old war  horse like the musical fidelity xcan 3 used for $250 if it comes on sale.

 

[phishhead92]

okay, real quick but dumb question, which specification on a amp will tell you what impedance it can support? cause if im gonna end up getting the 32 ohm 880s i doubt ill need an amp

 

[sberamji]

There are no specs as such. But here is what you can do:
 
Concepts -
 
1. Low impedence headphones (approx any headphone < 100ohms) need current to be driven properly. HIgh impedence headphones need voltage.
 
You need to understand voltage and current first. Think of a hose pipe of say 1 foot of diameter. The pressure with which the water flows is voltage and the amount of water flowing threw the pipe is current. If I want to increase voltage I need to increase the pressure of the water flow, but if I want to increase current I need to increase the amount of water flowing per cross section of the pipe.
 
Now here is what happens - imagine if I have a low impedence headphone. You are asking for a lot of current from the amp. In the pipe example this means you will use a bigger diameter pipe to allow more water to flow through. Now if you have more water it is fine because you can fill the entire pipe with it. But if you do not have enough water then the flow reduces to a trickle and the headphone will distort of choke.
 
Amps like high impedences. If you do not connect any headphone to the amp it sees an impedence of unlimited ohms because it is open to the air. The amp is happy here as it does not have to do any work! If you short the terminals of an amp you may blow the circuit because the amp has to dump all its current into the load. The same consept applies to headphones. High impedence headphones keep the amp happy as he has to do less work while low impedence headphones make the amp release a lot more electrons i.e. current.
 
2. The amp manufacturer will rate the amp regarding what impedence headphones it can drive. Example it will say this can drive headphones from 30-300ohms. The trick is that a lot of cheap amps do not have enough current to drive low impedence cans properly though they can drive them. You should look at the power ratings at different impedences. Eg. 100mW at 300ohms, 200mW at 100ohms and say 300mW at 30ohms. Now what happens is that if an amp does not have the capability to drive a low impedence headphone well the power output at 30ohms will decrease instead of increasing! This is because the manufacturer limits the current capability as his circuit cannot habdle the low impedence.
 
3. The Beyer 32ohms will always benefit from an amp. It will be driven my an MP3 player or sound card but an amp will give it control. It will lack dynamics, speed, tightness and control overall. The sound may have too much mid range in it as well and may sound a little bloated. Once again if you have not experienced uisng an amp you may do fine. The problem is that once you know something better exists it is hard to go back to the cheaper solution
 
4. In short - most of the cheaper amps can drive a load of 30ohms fine. So dont worry too much and buy your headphones and enjoy! Dont buy maudio or emu. Their drivers are very poor and make the sound break up.
 
Take my advice - if you do not want to invest a lot buy a used creek OBH-11 amp and enjoy. It is built very well and for the price sounds very very good. I still think the Creek will be happier driving the 250ohm beyer (more control and less distortion) but it will drive the 32ohms one well too.

 

[phishhead92]

yeah that makes alot more sense to me, thanks for explaining that. but i was taking a gander through the forums and a came across the matrix m-stage, now that looks like an extremely promising amp although the price is a bit higher i have a paycheck coming soon so i am willing to spend the extra 50 over 200, do you have any experience with the amp? i read the review done on it and it seems like a really high quality amp. also i will be able to hook up the DIY DAC i plan to build. so i think this might be my choice. then with the 600ohm DT880's should be a great desktop rig

 

[sberamji]

The M stage is a copy of the Lehmann Linear amp which I did own and in my books was a lousy amp for $1200. Had it been sold at $400-$600 it would have been good value. Anyways, the m stage looks decent enough but please keep in mind it will not sound like the Lehmann. Just copying a design will not make the amp sound the same because the power supply design in the Lehmann will be different. However it uses the 2134 opamp which I thought was a very good opamp. So yes for $250 if you want a brand new amp try it out. Do keep in mind that it is a copy which means the designer did not set out with any goal in mind regarding how it should sound. He just set out to copy the Lehmann. Whever you design an amp you have to have a philosophy - eg. I am going to make a very high power amp that can drive anything. Then based on your budget you add more bells and whistles but at heart it remains a beast. On the other scale some designer want to build a very low powered but very high quality amp which should be carefully matched. You have to understand that audio is an art not just a science specially when you start getting into higher end equipment.
 
As said before for $250 look at the used market. Headphone amps are usually reliable and the headphone society has a lot of people who hardly use an amp and then sell it off because they didn't like it. That way you can get a $500 amp for say $250. I have done some research and posted some links for you. Move fast as these won't stay forever!
 
CIAudio
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1282083304&/CI-Audio-vhp-1-w/-vac-1high-cu
 
Musical Fid V8
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1281901442&/Musical-Fidelity-X-CAN-v8-
 
This maybe a bit out of your budget but negotiate and try and get it for $350. It will be money well spent! This was considered as one of the best headphone amps at that price before the Lehmann came out.
 
You can also look out for Meier audio amps and headroom amps. Both brands make good amps.
 
Regarding your headphones - what type of music are you into? Using low quality MP3's will sound terrible on a good system. Garbage in garbage out is the rule in audio. Please take care of that as well Regarding the headphones - order a Senn  HD650 and a Beyer GT880 from Amazon. They have a 30 day return policy and if you have the balance on ur credit card it will allow you to compare both headphones and make a good choice. The HD650 is terrific for opera and vocals and when mated with a fast slightly lean amp it is one of the finest sounds at that price. The Beyer on the other hand will sound better with a wide range of music as it is very neutral but it will not make your hair stand the way the Senn can on some tracks like Sarah brightman or Andrea Boccili. please keep in mind that you HAVE to run the headphones in for atleast 20-30 hrs before you start judging them. Usually after 72 hrs or so the sound begins to stablise.
 
Hope this helps.
 
SB
 
 

 

[phishhead92]

oh its a copy, i had no idea, and the CI audio is a possiblity but not the x-can thats far out of my budget haha, but maybe some other time down the road. but yeah i mean for 250 you say its a pretty good amp i might as well try it and see what happens, its better than what i have now (check my signature).
 
and as far as mp3s go... none of that., vinyl rips if possible (too poor to afford physical media/turntables and all that) so i have the highest i can find, flacs shns, 24bits if possible 192kHz if possible etc etc. but yeah i know about that, good thing i found out about mp3s lameness (in the hi-fi world) basically when i started hardcore collection music so mostly all of my collection is lossless, at least everything i listen to.
 
and again, as stated above, im 17 and work at a bike shop, money isnt exactly abundant. i was thinking about beyers and then later gettting some closed headphones as well have a variety, up until now ive been a IEM guy (again check the signature) but i might go for senns later, im not a huge vocals fan, i like lots of types of music, usually live, electronic, jazz, just to name a few. not a huge vocals fan though. but my etymotics have lead me to really respect the high end. also the other determining factor here is headphone.com, 880's $300 for the 600ohm, 650s $500, so uhh, you can see my predicament.