[Gamerhead]

Hi there,
 
Short time lurker with a rising interest for quality audio here.
 
I'm looking to upgrade my gaming experience with a new pair of headphones within the next couple of weeks. I've more or less decided for the Beyerdynamic DT990 250 ohms (feel free to suggest alternatives) due to their open-back design, rich sound and overall fits my gaming needs (according to several reviews, and Head-fi threads I've read).
 
Since I would like to boost the headphones as much as I can (and remains affordable) and would like some virtual surround, I'm looking into DAC&AMP or a Sound Card with/without an AMP. What are your suggestions? Would a sound card with an internal amp suffice? Such as Creative SoundBlaster Z? How would that compare against say a Xonar DS + E11/E12? How hard are the DT990 to drive? I'm trying to make this as cheap as possible. I have no godly ear but want good and rich sound for serious gaming and media.
 
I have no need for any of the equipment to be portable, as it will be used only on my gaming desktop (or battlestation if you'd like). I don't want to keep track of recharging batteries etc, so an AC adapter or USB as a power source able to run consistently is a must.

Note that this is the FIRST TIME I'm looking to purchase this kind of equipment, including a sound card, so I am indeed an utter noob.
 
Cheers from Sweden.

 

[PureSound168]

hi there, let me ask first, you are upgrading your setup mainly for gaming purpose correct? or u have plans to use it as an audio source for
hifi setup?

 

[Gamerhead]

  hi there, let me ask first, you are upgrading your setup mainly for gaming purpose correct? or u have plans to use it as an audio source for
hifi setup?

The upgrade is indeed mainly for gaming purposes, as that is what I use my desktop for. I do however have a 5.1 system connected to it aswell that I frequently play music on, but that isn't my primary concern here.

 

[PureSound168]

ahh ok, if gaming is the main purpose then i would not recommend a DAC&AMP combo.. i suggest you buy a very good gaming sound card which can drive the DT 990 @ 250 ohms.. i believe you are in the right track with the sound blaster Z sound card. it can drive the headphones directly plus at the same time support current direct X for gaming which an external DAC cannot do. 

 

[Gamerhead]

  ahh ok, if gaming is the main purpose then i would not recommend a DAC&AMP combo.. i suggest you buy a very good gaming sound card which can drive the DT 990 @ 250 ohms.. i believe you are in the right track with the sound blaster Z sound card. it can drive the headphones directly plus at the same time support current direct X for gaming which an external DAC cannot do. 

 
Thanks for responding. How big of a difference is the sound quality of a DAC+AMP Sound card vs, external DAC&AMP or a Sound Card and an external AMP? Barely noticeable, in terms of gaming? I'm not sure exactly where to look, but are sound cards my only option if I want virtual surround? So far the external solutions I've looked at are stereo only, but I can't imagine that can be the case?

 

[PureSound168]

let me clarify more, when i said "external DAC" im referring to products like schiit bifrost, dacport LX, benchmark dac and the likes.. because those dacs can output music and can be used for games as well but they do not support technologies like 3d positional audio which is very important in gaming. they simply output everything in stereo. 

 

[PureSound168]

   
Thanks for responding. How big of a difference is the sound quality of a DAC+AMP Sound card vs, external DAC&AMP or a Sound Card and an external AMP? Barely noticeable, in terms of gaming? I'm not sure exactly where to look, but are sound cards my only option if I want virtual surround? So far the external solutions I've looked at are stereo only, but I can't imagine that can be the case?

 
with regards to sound quality, an external DAC+AMP in general will always sound better than a sound card. since your purpose is gaming, you have no choice but to go for a gaming sound card if you want support for direct x 3d sound protocols. i myself had that dilemma as i am a gamer and a noobie audiophile as well  

 

[Rhamnetin]

Supposedly you can use an external DAC with a sound card and not lose the sound card's gaming benefits, if you connect the DAC to the sound card using an optical connection.  I suppose this depends on the sound card in question.
 
You can start off with a Creative Sound Blaster Z, it has a built-in amplifier that can drive headphones up to 600 ohms.  It doesn't have a particularly good DAC but for gaming it should be plenty.  

 

[PurpleAngel]

   
Thanks for responding. How big of a difference is the sound quality of a DAC+AMP Sound card vs, external DAC&AMP or a Sound Card and an external AMP? Barely noticeable, in terms of gaming? I'm not sure exactly where to look, but are sound cards my only option if I want virtual surround? So far the external solutions I've looked at are stereo only, but I can't imagine that can be the case?

 
A Sound Blaster Z sound card ($84) is the best value for gaming and driving your 250-Ohm headphones (and fairly good audio quality)
For something offering  a little better audio quality, a used Asus Xonar Essence STX sound card ($120-$140).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-Xonar-Essence-STX-PCIe-Sound-Card-/161379250409?pt=US_Sound_Cards_Internal_&hash=item2592f3f0e9
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-XONAR-ESSENCE-STX-Sound-Card-/191263524572?pt=US_Sound_Cards_Internal_&hash=item2c8831c6dc
 
An Asus Xonar DX or D1 sound card (used, $60) comboed with an external headphone amplifier (Schiit Magni, $110), gives you a volume knob at your finger tips.
and an amplifier that can be used with more then just your computer.

 

[Rhamnetin]

 
An Asus Xonar DX or D1 sound card (used, $60) comboed with an external headphone amplifier (Schiit Magni, $110), gives you a volume knob at your finger tips.
and an amplifier that can be used with more then just your computer.

 
The thing is, you can usually find a used Creative Sound Blaster Z for the same price as a used Xonar DX or D1.  Same for brand new ones.  The main differences between them are that the Sound Blaster Z has an amplifier, and the Creative Sound Core3D DSP has more features for gaming (better virtual surround and EAX).  I vote for the Sound Blaster Z.  

 

[Darkseth]

Please, do NOT buy something like a DX + an external Amplifier... Doesnt make sense.
The Beyerdynamic is by FAR not difficult to drive. Even the DX without an headphone amplifier is more than capable in driving a 250 Ohm beyerdynamic. Even with my dt 880 600 Ohm my old DX did a Fairly nice job. From 60% upwards it was way too loud.
(i still used a 200€ DAC/AMP combo, a Yulong u100. The sound difference between this and the Xonar DX was... max 1-2%.)
 
Before you waste your money into a DX (or similar) + an too expensive amp, just get an Asus Phoebus. Should be the best choice for gaming.
- Best amplifier on consumer soundcarts (TI 6120). The same, even the Essence and ZxR uses. by FAAAAR more then enough power to drive pretty much every dynamic headphone without any problems.
- DAC is just sliiiightly worse than the Essence. You will Not notice that its worse, i promise.
- If you need, 3 different Surround-simulations (Xear Surround, Dolbi Home Theater V4, DTS Ultra PC 2). Not that you "need" a 7.1 software-surround simulation for gaming. Good stereo is more than enough. (btw, i personally use a T90, and those surround simulations do not help me a bit in locating sounds. its pretty much the same as stereo, it feels like it just added some effects. Maybe you are lucky, and they work on your ears better).
 
 
So, my summary:
 
cheap: Asus Xonar DGX.
Mid:
- Soundblaster Z. For mainly gaming, i would prefer it over a DX (even if soundquality is sliiightly worse). Dedicated headphone jack, AND the better software surround. Plus, the price of the bulk is okay. Btw, EAX is not an argument, since EAX is Dead. And not since yesterday, its dead since about 5-8 years. And it will not come back. Except, you play veeeery old games.
- Fiio E10 / E10k~. Quality is compareable to a Phoebus, at a cheaper price. But no software features, no driver problems. Plug & Play. You can STILL have a Surround simulation! Razer Surround. In my opinion, thats one of the BEST software surround solutions for gaming you can get.
- Higher price range: Asus Phoebus (Solo). Pretty much the best of everything for gaming purposes, without any cons (except the higher price).

 

[Rhamnetin]

 
- Soundblaster Z. For mainly gaming, i would prefer it over a DX (even if soundquality is sliiightly worse). Dedicated headphone jack, AND the better software surround. Plus, the price of the bulk is okay. Btw, EAX is not an argument, since EAX is Dead. And not since yesterday, its dead since about 5-8 years. And it will not come back. Except, you play veeeery old games.

 
Yeah you don't see it used anymore, though it's still in many of the games I play such as Thief 2, KOTOR, both Neverwinter Nights games, Hitman: Blood Money, Baldur's Gate 2, Oblivion, Titan Quest, Rainbow Six 3: Gold, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl, all some of the very best in their genres.

 

[Gamerhead]

   
A Sound Blaster Z sound card ($84) is the best value for gaming and driving your 250-Ohm headphones (and fairly good audio quality)
For something offering  a little better audio quality, a used Asus Xonar Essence STX sound card ($120-$140).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-Xonar-Essence-STX-PCIe-Sound-Card-/161379250409?pt=US_Sound_Cards_Internal_&hash=item2592f3f0e9
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-XONAR-ESSENCE-STX-Sound-Card-/191263524572?pt=US_Sound_Cards_Internal_&hash=item2c8831c6dc
 
An Asus Xonar DX or D1 sound card (used, $60) comboed with an external headphone amplifier (Schiit Magni, $110), gives you a volume knob at your finger tips.
and an amplifier that can be used with more then just your computer.

 
 

  Please, do NOT buy something like a DX + an external Amplifier... Doesnt make sense.
The Beyerdynamic is by FAR not difficult to drive. Even the DX without an headphone amplifier is more than capable in driving a 250 Ohm beyerdynamic. Even with my dt 880 600 Ohm my old DX did a Fairly nice job. From 60% upwards it was way too loud.
(i still used a 200€ DAC/AMP combo, a Yulong u100. The sound difference between this and the Xonar DX was... max 1-2%.)
 
Before you waste your money into a DX (or similar) + an too expensive amp, just get an Asus Phoebus. Should be the best choice for gaming.
- Best amplifier on consumer soundcarts (TI 6120). The same, even the Essence and ZxR uses. by FAAAAR more then enough power to drive pretty much every dynamic headphone without any problems.
- DAC is just sliiiightly worse than the Essence. You will Not notice that its worse, i promise.
- If you need, 3 different Surround-simulations (Xear Surround, Dolbi Home Theater V4, DTS Ultra PC 2). Not that you "need" a 7.1 software-surround simulation for gaming. Good stereo is more than enough. (btw, i personally use a T90, and those surround simulations do not help me a bit in locating sounds. its pretty much the same as stereo, it feels like it just added some effects. Maybe you are lucky, and they work on your ears better).
 
 
So, my summary:
 
cheap: Asus Xonar DGX.
Mid:
- Soundblaster Z. For mainly gaming, i would prefer it over a DX (even if soundquality is sliiightly worse). Dedicated headphone jack, AND the better software surround. Plus, the price of the bulk is okay. Btw, EAX is not an argument, since EAX is Dead. And not since yesterday, its dead since about 5-8 years. And it will not come back. Except, you play veeeery old games.
- Fiio E10 / E10k~. Quality is compareable to a Phoebus, at a cheaper price. But no software features, no driver problems. Plug & Play. You can STILL have a Surround simulation! Razer Surround. In my opinion, thats one of the BEST software surround solutions for gaming you can get.
- Higher price range: Asus Phoebus (Solo). Pretty much the best of everything for gaming purposes, without any cons (except the higher price).

 
Appreciate the advice. Reading both of your suggestions I'm probably looking at buying the Soundblaster Z, which is also a very affordable option.

 

[PurpleAngel]

  Please, do NOT buy something like a DX + an external Amplifier... Doesn't make sense.
The Beyerdynamic is by FAR not difficult to drive. Even the DX without an headphone amplifier is more than capable in driving a 250 Ohm beyerdynamic. Even with my dt 880 600 Ohm my old DX did a Fairly nice job. From 60% upwards it was way too loud.
(i still used a 200€ DAC/AMP combo, a Yulong u100. The sound difference between this and the Xonar DX was... max 1-2%.)
 
Before you waste your money into a DX (or similar) + an too expensive amp

 
I've found that some people like having a volume knob at their finger tips
And a Xonar DX/D1 used with an external headphone amplifier makes sense, the Xonar DX/D1 has a 100-Ohm output impedance, so the DX/D1 is not that great for driving low impedance headphones.
And the Schiit Magni (or other external amp) is something that can be used with more then just a Win PC.

 

[Trancefury]

I too have been doing a lot of research for a gaming setup and deciding on whether or not to get an external DAC. In my case, I'll be playing a lot of high quality music when I'm not gaming, so I'll personally have a soundblaster z hooked up to an external DAC via optical, to an external Amp to power my orthodynamic headphones.

In your case, an external DAC will only do better than a Z/ZX/ZXR if the quality of the sound is high enough. I'd say this isn't the case with most game sounds. Also, I've heard reports that some people experience sound delay while gaming if you're using a cheaper DAC, since the sound is passing multiple layers before it reaches your ears. I'll be receiving mine in a few weeks, I'll definitely report it if it happens!
 
TLDR: Low end DAC isn't worth it and may be risky, high end DAC won't be used to it's fullest without lossless/FLAC file audio and is expensive. I would go Z/ZX/ZXR into Beyers.