Amp and DAC for AKG K712 Pro
Jun 26, 2015 at 10:22 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 48

eragon1307

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Hello,


I bought an AKG 712 Pro 2 weeks ago. What to say, I like its treble , but not its bass since I owned an HE400. Now I am looking for an amp to improve the bass ( I don't want to comeback to HE400 since it's dark and heavy, which made me few uncomfortable when listening to music) .


Amp: I'm considering between Asgard 2 and Lyr 2 ( I can try my best to get the Lyr 2 )
DAC: Cambridge Magic 100 ( Got it for 155 Euro for new, pretty cheap) or I should return it and get the Loki ? I only listening music with my Dell laptop so an USB port is a necessary in a DAC.


I truly appreciate your help since this is the first time I buy Amp and DAC. 

My taste is pop, ballad violion, some songs of Maroon 5 ( Sugar, Lost Stars, Leaving California,..) and especially piano ( Canon in D, Autumn in My Heart) ( more info if it helps )

Pa : in the near future I will buy HE 560 so can you please suggest a combo for HE560 and AKG K 712 ? Thank you in advance.
 
Jun 27, 2015 at 1:15 AM Post #2 of 48

cel4145

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What kind of amp do you have right now?

If you already have an amp sufficient to drive the K712s, an amp is not going to work miracles with bass and might only make a slight difference. If you want a bit more bass, you seem like a candidate for the K7XX, a special edition headphone which was recently sold on Massdrop in the last six months. You might see if you can find a used pair.
 
Jun 27, 2015 at 1:40 AM Post #3 of 48

ProtegeManiac

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A better amp doesn't totally overhaul the bass response (save for bass boost feature on some amps), all it will do is tighten it up. The lack of distortion and better dynamic range (plus maybe a cleaner background) make the hard hits of the bass more audible.
 
What is it exactly that you miss about the HE400's bass? It has two advantages over the K712 and all other dynamic headphones in that it's flat from 100hz down to a little over 20hz, while dynamic headphones tend to have a boost in the upper half of that range, and probably well past 100hz. In fairness to the K712 though it's a relatively smooth plateau from 100hz down to around 40hz, so most instruments that are mostly in that range won't suffer from some kind of imbalance since it gets low enough through teh audible range before it really starts dropping off.
 
 

 
Jun 27, 2015 at 3:38 AM Post #4 of 48

eragon1307

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What kind of amp do you have right now?

If you already have an amp sufficient to drive the K712s, an amp is not going to work miracles with bass and might only make a slight difference. If you want a bit more bass, you seem like a candidate for the K7XX, a special edition headphone which was recently sold on Massdrop in the last six months. You might see if you can find a used pair.



This will be the first time I buy an Amp+Dac combo so it's gonna change my life ( or not...) :D I found that I quite like the mid of K712, but it is enough for AKG so I may get an HE560 next time.
What is it exactly that you miss about the HE400's bass?

Yes, you are right. In compare to my K712, the HE400's bass is somehow more tight. Well, it's complete a hit before perform a new one. Hit by hit. About K712's bass, I feel that something is following , like a hit does not complete yet but another come already. 

However, I'm quite happy with the K712 right now. Do you guys think I should :
1/ upgrade to HE 560 
or
2/ buy and amp+ DAC for K712 ? ( I bought Cambridge DACMagic 100 + Schiit Asgard 2 already but can return)

I am thinking about the second choice sine it's not too expensive, but it depends, I can try my best to get HE560 :D
 
Jun 27, 2015 at 4:21 AM Post #5 of 48

ProtegeManiac

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This will be the first time I buy an Amp+Dac combo so it's gonna change my life ( or not...) :D I found that I quite like the mid of K712, but it is enough for AKG so I may get an HE560 next time.
Yes, you are right. In compare to my K712, the HE400's bass is somehow more tight. Well, it's complete a hit before perform a new one. Hit by hit. About K712's bass, I feel that something is following , like a hit does not complete yet but another come already. 

 
You mean the first note hasn't completely faded off when the next note comes in? Like a fast bass drum sequence that's supposed to go thudthudthudthudthudthudthudthudthudthudthudthud sounds more like thwwuuthdthwwuuthdthwwuuthdthwwuuthdthwwuuthdwwuud?
 
If that's the case it's not simply because the K712's response, but partly also because you're already getting distortion from whatever you're using to drive it. Still, don't expect it to be exactly like the HE400. What are you using on the K712 now?
 
Jun 27, 2015 at 4:35 AM Post #6 of 48

eragon1307

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You mean the first note hasn't completely faded off when the next note comes in? Like a fast bass drum sequence that's supposed to go thudthudthudthudthudthudthudthudthudthudthudthud sounds more like thwwuuthdthwwuuthdthwwuuthdthwwuuthdthwwuuthdwwuud?
 
If that's the case it's not simply because the K712's response, but partly also because you're already getting distortion from whatever you're using to drive it. Still, don't expect it to be exactly like the HE400. What are you using on the K712 now?


Yes yes, you are right, it's what I want to say. I just plug and play it with my Dell without any amp / dac , so I'm thinking about second choice.
 
Jun 27, 2015 at 6:09 AM Post #7 of 48

ProtegeManiac

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Yes yes, you are right, it's what I want to say. I just plug and play it with my Dell without any amp / dac , so I'm thinking about second choice.

 
So long as you don't expect it to be completely like the HE400 then a decent amp will help with that issue. The Asgard was enough for me driving the K701, but if you go by the numbers on Audiobot9000, the peak/dynamic SPL from the Lyr is 6dB louder and the damping factor is double. That suggests (but of course it may not be audible in the same degree as the disparity in quantitative data) that when driven by the Lyr, the K712 can potentially have tighter bass hits than the Asgard. Note though that higher damping factor and "tighter" bass doesn't necessarily mean "louder" bass, it's just that when it comes to subjective descriptions someone hearing a more solid impact "THUD!!!" will describe it in general as "more bass" playing AC/DC, whereas other people might interpret the same to mean more rumbling, creeping bass to back up Lil Jon or Skrillex.
 
Jun 27, 2015 at 6:46 AM Post #8 of 48

eragon1307

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So long as you don't expect it to be completely like the HE400 then a decent amp will help with that issue. The Asgard was enough for me driving the K701, but if you go by the numbers on Audiobot9000, the peak/dynamic SPL from the Lyr is 6dB louder and the damping factor is double. That suggests (but of course it may not be audible in the same degree as the disparity in quantitative data) that when driven by the Lyr, the K712 can potentially have tighter bass hits than the Asgard. Note though that higher damping factor and "tighter" bass doesn't necessarily mean "louder" bass, it's just that when it comes to subjective descriptions someone hearing a more solid impact "THUD!!!" will describe it in general as "more bass" playing AC/DC, whereas other people might interpret the same to mean more rumbling, creeping bass to back up Lil Jon or Skrillex.

Oh my....At first I was going to buy a Lyr 2 but you know, my wallet did not allow ( but I could try my best....)
Do you think that if I move from A2 to L2, I will be something like "WOWWWWW" ? There is a huge space between 250 and 450:D 
My taste is pop, ballad violion, some songs of Maroon 5 ( Sugar, Lost Stars, Leaving California,..) and especially piano ( Canon in D, Autumn in My Heart) ( more info if it helps )

 
Jun 27, 2015 at 10:40 AM Post #9 of 48

ProtegeManiac

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  Oh my....At first I was going to buy a Lyr 2 but you know, my wallet did not allow ( but I could try my best....)
Do you think that if I move from A2 to L2, I will be something like "WOWWWWW" ? There is a huge space between 250 and 450:D 
My taste is pop, ballad violion, some songs of Maroon 5 ( Sugar, Lost Stars, Leaving California,..) and especially piano ( Canon in D, Autumn in My Heart) ( more info if it helps )

 
I remember my listening with the K701 on the Asgard than on the Lyr, but even then I didn't have anything to complain about really. It's hard to tell how much better the Lyr will be, only that if you can, you should at least consider the Lyr. If I was in the same situation I'd likely wait if I'd have enough cash by next month, but if I can foresee that that won't be the case, I'll just get the Asgard now. If you get upgraditis later on I'll just tell you to ignore it.
 
Jun 27, 2015 at 10:49 AM Post #10 of 48

cel4145

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Do you think that if I move from A2 to L2, I will be something like "WOWWWWW" ?


My guess is not likely at all. The additional output of the Lyr won't help at all unless you are listening at extremely loud volumes. And the low output impedance is far below the 1/8 of the headphone impedance rule that most people use for making sure that dampening factor is not a problem. The fact that you owned an HE-400 and didn't have an amp before now suggests that you probably don't listen at extremely loud volumes since the HE-400s are arguably more difficult to drive, in my experience. I've used both the K612 Pro, which is more difficult to drive than the K712s, and the HE-400 with the Asgard 2, and it easily drove them very loud.

So what have you been listening to your headphones with (make/model)?
 
Jun 27, 2015 at 12:25 PM Post #11 of 48

eragon1307

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Should I sell all of them and get the HE 560 first , then the DAC and Amp later ? 

Quote:
   
I remember my listening with the K701 on the Asgard than on the Lyr, but even then I didn't have anything to complain about really. It's hard to tell how much better the Lyr will be, only that if you can, you should at least consider the Lyr. If I was in the same situation I'd likely wait if I'd have enough cash by next month, but if I can foresee that that won't be the case, I'll just get the Asgard now. If you get upgraditis later on I'll just tell you to ignore it.

I have enough money now but I do not want to spend to much for it, and since you say that it's hard to tell how much better the Lyr will be so I think I'll stick with Asgard :D
 

The fact that you owned an HE-400 and didn't have an amp before now suggests that you probably don't listen at extremely loud volumes since the HE-400s are arguably more difficult to drive, in my experience. I've used both the K612 Pro, which is more difficult to drive than the K712s, and the HE-400 with the Asgard 2, and it easily drove them very loud.

So what have you been listening to your headphones with (make/model)?

Well, I just plug them with my laptop, and that's all. No amp, no Dac, nothing else :D
 
Jun 27, 2015 at 2:35 PM Post #12 of 48

pifidelity

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Hey, I have the K712s and currently driving them with the Asgard2. Great combo imo, nothing to complain about and has power to spare. I'm sure you'll enjoy :)
Running all this off a desktop PC with the Asus Essense ST soundcard.
 
Jun 27, 2015 at 2:52 PM Post #13 of 48

eragon1307

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  Hey, I have the K712s and currently driving them with the Asgard2. Great combo imo, nothing to complain about and has power to spare. I'm sure you'll enjoy :)
Running all this off a desktop PC with the Asus Essense ST soundcard.

Greate :D How long have you been using them ? Do you thing you will upgrade the combo soon ? Does it improve the bass, make it thicker and better ? 
 
Jun 27, 2015 at 3:37 PM Post #14 of 48

pifidelity

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  Greate :D How long have you been using them ? Do you thing you will upgrade the combo soon ? Does it improve the bass, make it thicker and better ? 

 
Must be at least a year now. No plans to upgrade any time soon, if anything, perhaps an external DAC as I'm getting a little noise coming from my soundcard at really high volumes - nothing major though. Definitely no plans to upgrade the amp (Asgard) anytime soon as it's more powerful than anything I would ever need for headphones. That, and I love the look of it.
 
In terms of sound quality, I do believe I get a little more bass (perhaps cleaner bass*?) with the amp vs no amp with the K712s. It's hard to describe, but I do feel a difference there. It also most definitely can get louder with the amp (obviously :p).
 
Jun 27, 2015 at 3:46 PM Post #15 of 48

cel4145

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Well, I just plug them with my laptop, and that's all. No amp, no Dac, nothing else :D


Oh, you would love the Asgard 2. Don't worry about getting the Lyr.

Now if you are still thinking about the Lyr 2, in the same price range, you should consider the Meier Corda Jazz: http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/jazz.htm
 

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